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Mattebox with 144mm rear opening?

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Clayton Burkhart

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Hi guys,
I am moving towards purchasing a Cooke 20-100 and definitely will need a mattebox which can be part of the lens support (it's a rather large sucker as most of you know). The thing is the only two mattebox's I could find with a 144mm rear opening are the Vocas MB-450 (seems to be a ton of them for sale right now) and the Movcam box's. Are there any other's with this same diameter that I haven't thought of?
The other thing that I am looking for is a serious lens support, but not interested in paying more than $500 for a machined steel ring with a screw. Kind of ridiculous. Aside from cheap Y mounts out there on ebay, any decent alternatives which are well built?
 
If the Cooke comes with a post, you should be able to screw that into the RED lens supports. If not, then I'm not sure.
 
Thanks Daniel, but unfortunately this Cooke does not have a post included. So when I speak of support I mean more than just a clamp for the rails...
 
Hi Clayton,

I owned a Cooke 20-100 lens before and the lens is very heavy and will eventually damage the lens mount or the body without a proper lens support.
I can see that you can sometimes use a rod mount matte box as an alternative lens support but what about the situation you don't want matte box?
Now I have a Cooke 18-100 and the lens support I have can be use for both 18-100 or 20-100 lens.
Why don't you look for a proper lens support? I know Duclos has a support for 25-250 so ask them if you can use it for your 20-100.

Or you can also check Visual Product's custom lens support.
http://www.visualproducts.com/storeProductDetail02.asp?productID=1254&Cat=3&Cat2=43

Once you find a proper lens support, then you can use any matte box with a rear diameter larger than 144mm. You can use OConnor Obox (150mm), Bright Tangerine Viv (150mm) or Strummer (164mm).
 
I've got the ARRI MB-14. Well engineered. Quite heavy. 6x6 filters including a couple of geared drives.

In the configuration chart, they show a 6" filter ring w/ rubber sleeve.
Part # K234350.0 is 144mm


First stop:
http://www.arri.com/fileadmin/media...n_Overviews/8.3.0_6.6x6.6_Matte_Box_MB-14.pdf

Then the ring / R1 category bottom of page on left:
http://www.arri.com/fileadmin/media...onfiguration_Overviews/9.0.0_Filter_Rings.pdf


As far as lens support - agree with previous posters. Essential.
To make the cost more bearable, try dividing by the number of years you expect to own it. Doesn't hurt as much...
 
Some of the Bright Tangerine models -- as well as the Red Mattebox
 
Jay Kim said:
Hi Clayton,

I owned a Cooke 20-100 lens before and the lens is very heavy and will eventually damage the lens mount or the body without a proper lens support.
I can see that you can sometimes use a rod mount matte box as an alternative lens support but what about the situation you don't want matte box?
Now I have a Cooke 18-100 and the lens support I have can be use for both 18-100 or 20-100 lens.
Why don't you look for a proper lens support? I know Duclos has a support for 25-250 so ask them if you can use it for your 20-100.

Or you can also check Visual Product's custom lens support.
http://www.visualproducts.com/storeProductDetail02.asp?productID=1254&Cat=3&Cat2=43

Once you find a proper lens support, then you can use any matte box with a rear diameter larger than 144mm. You can use OConnor Obox (150mm), Bright Tangerine Viv (150mm) or Strummer (164mm).
Click to expand...

Thanks, Jay. I have a couple of lens supports actually, which I was planning on using with the mattebox (which would actually only act as a stabilizer), however they are not the full circle wrap around ones, which are clearly better. However, i just don't think that paying $575 for a machined metal ring with a couple of screws and a post is justified. For the original Cooke with motor mount and screw post, yes. For the Visual Products piece, no. I will go to a machinist and have one made at half the price before going down that road. It's not rocket science. However, the Duclos piece looks a little bit more intelligently made. Thanks for that suggestion.

I will check out the bright tangerine box's, but I know that they have a 150mm rear openings and I don't see a step down to 144mm in their inventory. Same issue with the RED one. The O'Connor is close with a 150 to 143mm step down though, probably could do a little sanding...but it is a plastic ring. The Arri MB-14 which Brian mentioned looks like a serious piece of kit though.
 
Clayton,

It's a great lens, you'll love it.

But if you can't afford $500 for proper support, you won't be able to afford the damage you will cause to your camera, not to mention your unusable footage from having your FFD off.

Also, the 20-100 vignettes on many matteboxes, it's not just about the rear diameter. Test before you buy. Max
 
Max Fischer said:
Clayton,

It's a great lens, you'll love it.

But if you can't afford $500 for proper support, you won't be able to afford the damage you will cause to your camera, not to mention your unusable footage from having your FFD off.

Also, the 20-100 vignettes on many matteboxes, it's not just about the rear diameter. Test before you buy. Max
Click to expand...

It's not about affording proper support. It's about not spending money foolishly. For instance, that Visual Product support is so basic I could have one made for at least half that price down the street from where I live. Just because it's cinema, people seem to lose their common sense when it comes to pricing. In the meantime it appears that I can use just a common lens support with a threaded stud. Can you confirm this is the case, and what size it is?

In any case, thanks for the tip about the mattebox's. My preference is for the Vocas, but I already have two others so it's getting to be a real slog trying to accomodate all the different standards.
 
Clayton Burkhart said:
It says here that the Cooke 18-100 has a ⅜" 16 support screw hole:
http://www.marketwired.com/press-release/introducing-the-zacuto-3-8-16-lens-support-1553423.htm
Is this the case with the 20-100? I am assuming so...
If so then I am goiden as long as I have an adapter to accomodate that from my existing lens supports.
Click to expand...

No. The cooke 18-100 lens doesn't have a 3/8" 16 mount. They assumed it because most lenses have the lens support with 3/8" mount.
Here is a photo of my 18-100 lens and you can see the lens support in the middle.
 

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Thanks Jay. What about those snaller mounting holes on the barrel of the lens? Are the threaded? What is their size and use exactly?
 
Clayton Burkhart said:
Thanks Jay. What about those snaller mounting holes on the barrel of the lens? Are the threaded? What is their size and use exactly?
Click to expand...

As Brian said, they are the mounting holes for zoom sticks. And they are on a moving part so you cannot use it for the lens support.
 
You need a ring that goes around the lens for support, it was made by Cooke and you probably find it at used equipment sales.
I got one from a rental house for about 150 USD.

Regarding Mattebox you even can use a Arri LMB-5 or LMB-15 Lightweight Mattebox, they just came out with a Adapter which covers the Allura Zoom and i think they have the same diameter of 143 /144mm
Since you clip it on the lens its pretty easy to use and very slim, so you should´t have problems with vignetting on the wide end

best regards
Manuel
 
Manuel Wenger said:
Regarding Mattebox you even can use a Arri LMB-5 or LMB-15 Lightweight Mattebox, they just came out with a Adapter which covers the Allura Zoom and i think they have the same diameter of 143 /144mm
Since you clip it on the lens its pretty easy to use and very slim, so you should´t have problems with vignetting on the wide end
Click to expand...

Now is a good time to look for a used LMB5 since it has been discontinued by ARRI.
It has been replaced by the LMB25 which can use many of the clamps from the LMB5 & LMB15. The LMB25 adds a 5x5 filter holder and a third filter stage if you need it, lower flag mounting and a set of five masks. Unfortunately, the maximum size is 143mm, not 144mm. That one mm can and does make a difference. Find someone that has tried mounting a 143mm clamp on the Cooke before you commit to a purchase.

Data sheets I have show a front diameter on the ARRI/Fujinon 18-80 and 45-250 Alura lenses is 134mm.
The 15.5-45 front diameter is 114mm
 
Manuel Wenger said:
You need a ring that goes around the lens for support, it was made by Cooke and you probably find it at used equipment sales.
I got one from a rental house for about 150 USD.

Regarding Mattebox you even can use a Arri LMB-5 or LMB-15 Lightweight Mattebox, they just came out with a Adapter which covers the Allura Zoom and i think they have the same diameter of 143 /144mm
Since you clip it on the lens its pretty easy to use and very slim, so you should´t have problems with vignetting on the wide end

best regards
Manuel
Click to expand...

Yeah I know that a ring which goes around the lens is the ideal, however, I have had no luck finding them for $150! :-) A good ring can even permit the lens to be free standing, so absolutely no stress is on the mount. Ideal. That said, does anyone know the exact interior diameter of the rings being used for the 20-100? I may just have one CNC milled myself...

Oh, and by the way, a few people have questioned why I wouldn't purchase the Visual Products ring in terms of it's cost. I think I failed to mention that I live in Paris, France. So by the time I paid shipping and import duties, that simple metal collar ring and post will have cost me more than $800. Nuff said?

Regarding the LMB5, the 1mm difference would make a difference. While I don't mind sanding out a clamp ring, I would be quite hesitant actually doing it to a mattebox itself. The other thing is that as a clamp on, it would defeat the notion of the added stability that I am looking for with the lens.
 
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