Mattebox vs. Lens shade (hood)

[Jack Shanahan]

For all the Epic/Scarlet w/ Canon mount people: Why use a matte box when you can just use a lens shade/hood and stay super light weight? I am trying to wrap my head around this because it will determine whether or not I spend another couple grand on AKS. Thanks, Jack

 

[Nick Gardner]

The point of a matte box is that you can quickly change filters and lenses. Typically in an exterior situation you will have a pola and an nd up, and because out side is outside the sun comes and goes and angles change, often you are swapping out nds kind of often.

Nick

 

[Jack Shanahan]

The point of a matte box is that you can quickly change filters and lenses. Typically in an exterior situation you will have a pola and an nd up, and because out side is outside the sun comes and goes and angles change, often you are swapping out nds kind of often.

Nick

Do you think this is worth buying or just renting as needed?

 

[Julio Quintana]

Although I agree that a lens hood can be useful, a mattebox gives you a lot more control and allows you to work faster. Here are a couple of advantages:

-ND filters can stay in mattebox when you change lenses, instead of unscrewing all the filters from the lens.

-If you're using various filters, it's easy to add/remove from the mattebox instead of unscrewing half of them to get to the one in the back.

That being said, I regularly pull my mattebox when shooting car interiors or when I'm not concerned about flaring.
-If you're getting a flare from just out of frame, the mattebox has an eyebrow and side wings.


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[Jack Shanahan]

Although I agree that a lens hood can be useful, a mattebox gives you a lot more control and allows you to work faster. Here are a couple of advantages:

-ND filters can stay in mattebox when you change lenses, instead of unscrewing all the filters from the lens.

-If you're using various filters, it's easy to add/remove from the mattebox instead of unscrewing half of them to get to the one in the back.

That being said, I regularly pull my mattebox when shooting car interiors or when I'm not concerned about flaring.
-If you're getting a flare from just out of frame, the mattebox has an eyebrow and side wings.


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You have the Obox right? Thats the one I read about here and am considering....does it work with LW 15 and clip on with the Canon L primes Julio?

 

[Phil Holland]

You get a bit more control over things on a matte box. As mentioned, you can quickly swap out filtration.

My basic logic is matte box when in a studio situation and for most on set situations.

Lens hood for when you want to be a bit more portable, lightweight, compact.

Same could be said for filter trays versus screw on filtration.

 

[Jack Shanahan]

Thanks for your responses.

Another question I am wrangling right now is the Follow Focus. Investing in the LW 15 setup would enable a Mattbox and FF.

I am trying to figure out if I need to buy this or rent per need.

Thanks in advance for your intel!

EDIT: FWIW I will be using Canon L Primes and the Tokina 11-16. I havnt pulled the trigger on a PL mount yet but am considering that too...

 

[Bob Gundu]

Before you decide, rent for a while until you find out whats important. Personally, I would think the Mattebox or filters will be more handy.

 

[Dane Henry]

Thanks for your responses.

Another question I am wrangling right now is the Follow Focus. Investing in the LW 15 setup would enable a Mattbox and FF.

I am trying to figure out if I need to buy this or rent per need.

Thanks in advance for your intel!

EDIT: FWIW I will be using Canon L Primes and the Tokina 11-16. I havnt pulled the trigger on a PL mount yet but am considering that too...

If you are using Canon glass you can getaway with out using a FF because the focus through is so short you can easily do it by hand. You will get more use out of the Matte Box.

When you move to PL/Cine Glass you will find it much more difficult to do any quick focus racking by hand because of the very long focus throws

 

[Phil Holland]

I can't fathom operating my still lenses without a follow focus. I've tried it without, but it's just no good. I geared all of my most used lenses with Shoot35 Flexigears and used the Redrock Micro plastic clamp on gears for the rest. I agree the throw is short, but it's very hard to pull consistently without a follow focus.

 

[Carelton Holt]

A proper Matte Box will also make improvements in contrast and color saturation. Even if shooting into a light source that is not producing a flare, there can be considerable glare coming across the front element and or filter... a definite enemy of saturation. The additional adjustability of most matte boxes will improve a number of real world shooting situations. Think putting your hand over your brow to reduce glare when looking in the general direcrtion of the sun on a bright day... an organic matte box in action.

 

[Peter Stelzhammer]

another positive "side-effect" one should not underestimate;
if you're using a rod-supported/mounted Mattebox the rods/rails also double as good basic protection of the lens and even of the mount and the camera itself...

I know this should not happen (it's one of the worst on-set nightmares) but to just bring it up;
dropping the camera... or hitting objects with the camera...

I've witnessed situations where these things happened (with a RED One in my case)...
Without the rods for the Mattebox I'm pretty sure at least the glass would not have survived it (maybe even the camera)!
The rods got damaged - but the camera & glass was perfectly fine... it was a drop of about 1 meter onto hard floor, with the front hitting ground first.

It may be a little added wight but I also see it as a way to protect your gear...
(even if it's more the rod support / rail support and not the Mattebox itself)

 

[Anthony Vu]

I have been putting some serious thought into the PL mount as well. I've been shooting video with Canon L series for a while and they are great. Great on DSLR. Shooting on the SCARLET has changed some of my perception about these lenses. The glass isn't nearly as sharp and getting correct focus is hard because DSLR lenses have been known to shift in terms of pulling focus. When you set your marks, they don't stay consistent and it makes staying in focus a real pain. And at 4K, you can see every shot out of focus.

Thanks for your responses.

Another question I am wrangling right now is the Follow Focus. Investing in the LW 15 setup would enable a Mattbox and FF.

I am trying to figure out if I need to buy this or rent per need.

Thanks in advance for your intel!

EDIT: FWIW I will be using Canon L Primes and the Tokina 11-16. I havnt pulled the trigger on a PL mount yet but am considering that too...

I love my Redrock Mattebox. It works great, a bit big, but it does what it's suppose to and it makes the rig look sexy. I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this yet about matteboxes, but they make the talent work harder and take the job a bit more seriously. I would never think that, but I've seen it in real life. Talent sees a lens hood, and don't think much,....but they see a mattebox, they think it's a big movie production. Weird, I know. But I've seen it with my own eyes.

 

[Eric Lange]

A proper Matte Box will also make improvements in contrast and color saturation. Even if shooting into a light source that is not producing a flare, there can be considerable glare coming across the front element and or filter... a definite enemy of saturation. The additional adjustability of most matte boxes will improve a number of real world shooting situations. Think putting your hand over your brow to reduce glare when looking in the general direcrtion of the sun on a bright day... an organic matte box in action.

Definitely agree with this idea/understanding.

to OP and in geneal...

On set it can be that a lot of light comes in from high angles above and therefore is essential to have something at least above the lens that is quite long, and due to reflections off the ground/floor something below the lens to block stray light. Generally the amount of scattered light that hits the lens obliquely is significant although lens coatings have really improved over the past 25 years and continue to do so. Basically having a dark deep matt chamber with a filter (especially) an angled/tilted one significantly cuts down on scattered light and increases the relative amount of light that actually comes as principal rays that are required to form a very “pure image”. This much higher percentage of true directional image forming rays versus a plethora of scattered rays hitting the front element can make a real difference. Angled filters (i.e. slightly tilted) also have a polarizing effect as well.

I think at least 25 years ago (with the lenses used then), the mattebox makes a real difference to the on-set saturated and good contrast look that film has given. You can test the effect by quickly building out of materials you may have at hand, even a big cornflakes packet with suitably matt materials and fabric and test that for yourself under different lighting conditions.

Cheers,

Eric

 

[Alexandre Arch]

Using a mattebox and à follow focus does take time when shooting.

For me the mattebox is only useful when shooting with expensive square filters.
Other wise if your in a hurry or just have typical circular photo filters a lens hood is just fine. Its good enough for the greatest photographers I can't see why its not good enough for video or film makers.
To me its clear if you don't have square filters and your careful with the light, you won't get much more and you'll loose a lot of time with a mattebox.

For follow focus, if your shooting a movie with actors moving around with the help of an assistant etc , its best to use one.
If you're running around having to change lenses a lot your better of without it but you have to get used to it.
Generally some people either can't work without it, others get annoyed by it and prefer to work without it.
To me the best thing about follow focus is the marking disk , if you don't need to mark the focus points on it, with practice you can do without it.

 

[Luuk de Kok]

I bought my mattebox with one of the worst reasons ever and i really don't like the people who buy a mattebox with the same reason, to make your camera look cool...
I own it for 2 years now and i've learned a lot, and sometimes i use the mattebox but only if i need one (controlled lighting situations) since i don't own any 4x4 filters (it's a 4x4 mattebox) i only use it for that reason.
ND purposes i own a couple of screw on ND filters with step up rings which work quite nicely for my tokina 12-24 and canon 50mm 1.4
So my point on Mattebox, buy one if you need one, not because it makes your camera look "cool" and "professional"
If you're going to use the mattebox only one time in the 50 shoots you do then i suggest not buying one and if you need more shade just use some black cardbox to tape in front of your lens, it doesn't look that good and it's a bit harder to control but it saves you a lot which you can use on something like glass or other accessories.
Now if your gonna use it a bit more often than a mattebox is a great investment!
Again, ask yourself if you really need one or if you just want one