Mattebox handheld question

[Arsène R.]

Hi,


probably a strange question.
But what makes a mattebox sturdy enough to be used as "handles" or "handle grip"?


I know the O'Connor O box exists for instance. But i've seen people do it with others.

I currently use an old Chrosziel.
Any way of making a mattebox sturdy enough to be used like that?

 

[Phil Holland]

Several thoughts for handheld from me.

I prefer not to grip a matte box that is merely clamped on for handheld, however with a PL mount, sturdy lens, and a balanced shoulder rig; totally doable.

Recommendation if you are going this route, use 19mm rods and a rod clamp to secure the matte box as well as clamping to the lens.

A soft donut obviously will have too much play to be useful, got so for the matte box use a clamping ring.

I personally only use 15mm rods for my single rodClaw solution, but you can likely go that route as well.

 

[Arsène R.]

Thanks for the quick reply!

I definitely would only do this with a mattebox attached to rods!

But there's nothing else to watch out for? I mean what is the main stress point to look at?

I remember having a setup with rented material where this would have been ideal, but my 1AC said not with this mattebox.

 

[Phil Holland]

No problem. I don't know which matte box you are using and Chrosziel makes a bunch of them.

The main thing to look out for is your lens. I would say if its not PL mount or a rigid metal housing, i.e. solid metal body lens that doesn't extend while focusing, you likely don't want to rig your setup that way.

With the rod clamp and a lens clamp you have a fairly firm grip on things that shouldn't move much. I mean, don't swing your camera around by just the matte box, but if you're looking to go quick to shoulder that should be no problem.

 

[Christopher A. Bell]

I’ve seen people grab the matte box and do it and I’ve seen expensive, well made matte boxes get broken because of people putting too much stress on them. Most aren’t designed to work like that. I don’t really understand why someone would use the matte box as a set of grips to hold and control the camera, anyway. Is it for speed? To keep size/weight down? Or just lazy? Two of my matte boxes are Arri’s that have metal frames and I would still never use them to hold and control the camera. If you’re going to take the time to put a matte box on, take another few seconds and put a real grip/handle onto the rods. Or worst case scenario, just grab the rods.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

I’ve seen people grab the matte box and do it and I’ve seen expensive, well made matte boxes get broken because of people putting too much stress on them. Most aren’t designed to work like that. I don’t really understand why someone would use the matte box as a set of grips to hold and control the camera, anyway. Is it for speed? To keep size/weight down? Or just lazy? Two of my matte boxes are Arri’s that have metal frames and I would still never use them to hold and control the camera. If you’re going to take the time to put a matte box on, take another few seconds and put a real grip/handle onto the rods. Or worst case scenario, just grab the rods.

It’s been done for years, and even by some of the best camera operators in the business. Personal preference and feel I suppose. Not sure how common it is these days as there are a lot more operators that came up through the digital age with everything from DSLR rigs through the traditional cinema rigs. Spider grips seem common in many rigs I see on set.

 

[Joel Voelker]

You definitely want a good burly rod-mounted mattebox like a full-size Arri. You're potentially putting a lot os strain on the box and you wouldn't want to see it break.

 

[Cameron Currier]

And probably something that isn't swing away. I've seen that wear out real quick when people are grabbing the matte box like that.

 

[Jamie A]

Hi Arsene,
This is my preferred way of operating handheld, and for many feature/episodic operators here in LA. I find it's a more precise way of operating especially when you need to move the camera quickly.

Any of the Arri rod mounted (15mm or 19mm, it doesn't really matter) matteboxes will be fine for this. Swing away MB's are fine too.

My last season of episodic TV was Alexa Mini with Panavision cage, G series anamorphic lenses, Preston MDR3 & Lightranger, Bolt 3000, 2 x Dionic 90 batteries and Arri LMB 19mm Matte Box. Holding it by the matte box is no problem for this pretty big camera package.

I recommend using a shoulder pad that straps across your body/chest (not attached to the camera) and keeping the base of the camera as flat as possible.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

I recommend using a shoulder pad that straps across your body/chest (not attached to the camera) and keeping the base of the camera as flat as possible.

Something like this can work well.
http://holzerenterprises.com

 

[Christopher A. Bell]

It’s been done for years, and even by some of the best camera operators in the business. Personal preference and feel I suppose. Not sure how common it is these days as there are a lot more operators that came up through the digital age with everything from DSLR rigs through the traditional cinema rigs. Spider grips seem common in many rigs I see on set.

Hi Arsene,
This is my preferred way of operating handheld, and for many feature/episodic operators here in LA. I find it's a more precise way of operating especially when you need to move the camera quickly.

Any of the Arri rod mounted (15mm or 19mm, it doesn't really matter) matteboxes will be fine for this. Swing away MB's are fine too.

My last season of episodic TV was Alexa Mini with Panavision cage, G series anamorphic lenses, Preston MDR3 & Lightranger, Bolt 3000, 2 x Dionic 90 batteries and Arri LMB 19mm Matte Box. Holding it by the matte box is no problem for this pretty big camera package.

I recommend using a shoulder pad that straps across your body/chest (not attached to the camera) and keeping the base of the camera as flat as possible.

I guess this kinda parallels what I've seen most of my career with owner/operators vs. others. Guys that do not own the gear, generally*, will treat it much differently than if it was theirs.



*I say generally, because I do know some guys that beat the snot out of their gear. Worse than almost anyone renting or being a staffer would.

 

[Phil Holland]

Heh. You guys always used to see that cloth rag I keep with me on set in my bts photos, which gave my tripod shots a bit of a rock and roll vibe. One of the uses of that rag was indeed to be folded up and tossed under my shirt over my right shoulder to use as a pad when aspiring for comfort on long days.

... a towel has immense psychological value. For some reason, if a strag (strag: nonhitchhiker) discovers that a hitchhiker has his towel with him, he will automatically assume that he is also in possession of a toothbrush, washcloth, soap, tin of biscuits, flask, compass, map, ball of string, gnat spray, wet-weather gear, space suit etc., etc. Furthermore, the strag will then happily lend the hitchhiker any of these or a dozen other items that the hitchhiker might accidentally have "lost". What the strag will think is that any man who can hitch the length and breadth of the galaxy, rough it, slum it, struggle against terrible odds, win through, and still knows where his towel is, is clearly a man to be reckoned with.

 

[Arsène R.]

Thanks for all the quick replies!!

Hi Arsene,
This is my preferred way of operating handheld, and for many feature/episodic operators here in LA. I find it's a more precise way of operating especially when you need to move the camera quickly.

Any of the Arri rod mounted (15mm or 19mm, it doesn't really matter) matteboxes will be fine for this. Swing away MB's are fine too.

My last season of episodic TV was Alexa Mini with Panavision cage, G series anamorphic lenses, Preston MDR3 & Lightranger, Bolt 3000, 2 x Dionic 90 batteries and Arri LMB 19mm Matte Box. Holding it by the matte box is no problem for this pretty big camera package.

I recommend using a shoulder pad that straps across your body/chest (not attached to the camera) and keeping the base of the camera as flat as possible.

Exactly what I mean, and am looking to hear!

It just feels more natural to do this way for certain positions / angles / movements.

I'm a big fan of shoulderpad strapped to the shoulder/body and keeping the base as flat as possible. The strapped shoulderpad is one of the reasons for keeping it as flat as possible.

Something like this can work well.
http://holzerenterprises.com

Thank you for the link
I didn't know there were others than the HOP Shoulderpad! (Now called DFS shoulderpad I think)

If there are even more manufacturers let me know

 

[Jamie A]

I guess this kinda parallels what I've seen most of my career with owner/operators vs. others. Guys that do not own the gear, generally*, will treat it much differently than if it was theirs.



*I say generally, because I do know some guys that beat the snot out of their gear. Worse than almost anyone renting or being a staffer would.

The Arri LMB or larger matte boxes can easily handle this. It's been done for over 30 years. Some of the rod mounted Bright Tangerine models are solid too.

Arsene, contact Brad Richard (focusfrets at gmail). He's an operator in LA & makes the best shoulder pad out there. It's wide and low profile so it doesn't slip on your body. Avoid the high/bulky pads. It needs to have plenty of room to be able to slide the camera forwards and backwards.

 

[Nick Gardner]

It's certainly done, I don't do it, because it's an ergonomic nightmare. Even if the camera is perfectly balanced your arms are up to high. That's basing it on the premise that good hand held form has your elbows resting on your chest. You also have to bend your wrists unnaturally to grab the matte box. But to each his own.

One note is on dramatic TV and movies, takes aren't usually that long. I have never seen a doc shooter holding the matte box because it's god awful uncomfortable ;-)

Nick

 

[Phil Holland]

I'm in the back right now, but if you cats dig deep on the forum you'll see my shoulder setups from the last decade here and there.

The one I still rock is using the bits of RED Clutch bits for a slide on 19mm handle situation, the left handle has one of those curved dog bones to go further in front of the arm, and the shoulder pad is a slip on dovetail situation.

RED wen with the firm tactile pad for that kit which is nice for many, but some might prefer a softer pad if you are operating 6-12 hours on the shoulder.

It's rare for me to do an entire day on the shoulder, but breaking out longer rods and using a batter plate on the rear of the system away from the body allows for pretty nice balance. Feels more like you're driving a car with a heavy parrot on your shoulder and not fighting to keep him there.

 

[Jamie A]

It's certainly done, I don't do it, because it's an ergonomic nightmare. Even if the camera is perfectly balanced your arms are up to high. That's basing it on the premise that good hand held form has your elbows resting on your chest. You also have to bend your wrists unnaturally to grab the matte box. But to each his own.

One note is on dramatic TV and movies, takes aren't usually that long. I have never seen a doc shooter holding the matte box because it's god awful uncomfortable ;-)

Nick

As mentioned each to their own, but I don't find it uncomfortable at all. Holding the camera with both hands right next to the lens gives it a more responsive feel, which is why many great operators do it this way. Similar to why many operators grip the battery instead of a pan handle on a fluid head.