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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Matte Box Woes

CVB said:
Alex, nice suggestion but its patented.. http://www.google.com/patents?id=XvR3AAAAEBAJ&dq=petroff,+matte+box
I was going to show you guys what I have but I've found that few of my ideas have been patented... so I'm making some tweaks to the design. At least companies like Petroff are actually using their patent rather than sitting on it. Tiffen has a great patent for a tray-less filter system that I haven't seen in the marketplace yet.
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Seems like you should patent some of YOUR ideas, Curt!! :waaa:

Seriously though. Surely, Petroff's patent can't be so general as to include all modular Mattebox design. Petroff's particular snap together sections must be very specific, and so there must be alternative designs which can achieve the same aim? Hmmm...
 
I've patented a few of my ideas :) When you apply for a patent you try to be as vague as possible while still covering the specifics of your design. The more broad of a claim you can get patented the better. Petroff's and Tiffen's patents are very general and they patented a concept, not a specific design. There's always more than one way to skin a cat.
 
OK, so now I'm trying to lock down my angles for the sun shade and various other internals. I'm trying to come up with a worst case scenario FOV using the RED 15mm Prime and need a little help. I looked through my brothers trusty cinematographers handbook and there is no field of view data for a 15mm lens on a S35 sensor with a 1.77:1 format. (go figure)

Maybe some industrious individual can check my math.... assuming a sensor size of 24.4x13.7mm
15mm Prime: Horizontal=78.25 deg, Vertical=49.09 deg, Diagonal=86.02 deg
If my calcs are correct then the top/bottom of the mattebox will be kicked up about 25 degrees, and the sides will be kicked out about 40 degrees.

Compared to the MB20 these are fairly different... Here's what I got from the MB20: Horizontal=103 deg, Vertical=60 deg. These are approximate mind you.

So the question is... where is the physical focal point, and by that I mean the distance from the front of the lenses. I gather that its different from lens to lens but from my measurements on the MB20 I get a point thats about 70-80mm from the front of the lens towards the camera body. Using the angles I got for the Mysterium w/15mm, the focal point would have to be right at the very front of the lens or it might vignette with the MB20. I'm going to put some buffer in my angles but it be nice to get some feedback on this.
 
I'm getting 78.15 X 49.09 at the 4.5K aperture, and 73.5 X 45.57 at 4K, so it looks like you're good...not too certain about the origination point of those angles though, I think it varies dependent upon placement of the elements .
 
CVB said:
Tiffen has a great patent for a tray-less filter system that I haven't seen in the marketplace yet.
Click to expand...

I had a Tiffen Filterflex years ago. This was a trayless Mattebox, nice idea, but it was so cheaply made and it was very fragile, just not nice to use. I didn't keep it for long.

M
 
CVB said:
I've patented a few of my ideas :) When you apply for a patent you try to be as vague as possible while still covering the specifics of your design. The more broad of a claim you can get patented the better. Petroff's and Tiffen's patents are very general and they patented a concept, not a specific design. There's always more than one way to skin a cat.
Click to expand...

But how can you patent modularity? If it covered that then Red One would be infringing it's copyright, which is clearly absurd.

I understand the idea of being as vague as the Patent Office will let you get away with, but if really vague patents were fully enforceable, there would be no competition. Doesn't a patent just cover a particular implementation of an idea, with a reasonable amount of fuzziness to allow room for change and development.

Still, I guess in these corporate times, when there are abusive patents on the very stuff of life, you'd need very deep pockets if you want to challenge even a ludicrous patent. Patents weren't designed to stifle competition, but that's how they are becoming abused by some corporations. But that's another thread. Grrr!! :angry03: :biggrin:
 
Just started following this thread and I'm very happy somebody is tackleing this. All the best CVB, you rock.

Oh ya, I once used two (non circular) polas to make a variable ND so I could shoot directly at an HMI for kicks. Possible application for voltage based system like welding glass? Not exactly cinematic quality but who knows, might be an interresting effect, wierd strobing with the arc.

As for the spring (way earlier post), tilt camera back. Like the detents though, very necessary.

I was planning to buy a used 5x6 chroizsel but I'm holding off now.
You could easily take my money.
My personal feeling is that 5x6 is a decent size and would like the ability to use 6.6x6.6 filters as they are generally available. 4x5.6 could be limiting in some situations and more applicable for a "clip-on".

Now where is my micrometer?

J
 
Hi CVB I like your motion control head which sells for 15K after intro. I own one of Bob's (Petroff) matte boxes. It is well made and he has excellent service. I wondered what price range you are thinking of selling your matt box?
 
It's TBD at the moment... I need to get everything designed before I'll know for sure but I'd expect to see it hit the market for less than $1K. If all goes to plan that might change for the better.
 
CVB said:
It's TBD at the moment... I need to get everything designed before I'll know for sure but I'd expect to see it hit the market for less than $1K. If all goes to plan that might change for the better.
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WOW CVB,

That would be less than 3 or 4 filters to go in it!
You da man.

Chuck
 
CVB said:
It's TBD at the moment... I need to get everything designed before I'll know for sure but I'd expect to see it hit the market for less than $1K. If all goes to plan that might change for the better.
Click to expand...

Hi Curt,

That is an incredible price. I feel majority of buyers perfer ARRI level quality, design and features over a very low price. So if it takes a cost of 50% or 100% more then the 1k to achieve this it will be well worth it to a larger market of buyers. This said if you can do all that at a low price you will quickly become a big player in the camera accesories market.
 
Its worth it to spend extra on gear if it is something that will work well and last for life.
 
Jaime Vallés said:
Guys... stop encouraging him to make it more expensive! :wink:
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why? I can afford it. Triple the price, come on!:devil:
- just kidding.
Anyway, I really hope that Curt & Viewfactor turns into one major supplier of the film - sorry Red accessories industries, too. It´s really interesting to follow these threads and see how things evolve. Hope the same way will be and can be repeated with Curt´s LCS and FF.
 
CVB said:
It's TBD at the moment... I need to get everything designed before I'll know for sure but I'd expect to see it hit the market for less than $1K. If all goes to plan that might change for the better.
Click to expand...

I too prefer to get it bulletproof instead of skimping on materials/construction.

There is already a crappy $500 mattebox coming from Red Rock.
 
Price it high, sell a 100

Price it low, sell 10,000

Curt, you're on the right track.

I think we're going to see a lot of company's following Jim's lead on pricing to market share.....

And the company's that act quickly will be the ones to profit the most.

Price it low enough and you'll take the entire market by storm.
 
I´m thinking about the area of audio transmitters and high power led lighting. Did you see how much sennheiser and audio ltd. systems cost? There´s quite some room for improvement. What´s also missing are lighter, cheaper lift dollies. Right now there are only 300 kg monsters that have a price tag in excess of 80K...
 
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