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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Matte Box Woes

Correct, Pola only needs to rotate. I have used a Soft Edge ND Grad and a Hard Edge ND Grad at the same time. In this case it is nice to have two stages that can both rotate and have the position of the grad adjusted up and down. I think if you are trying to hit near anywhere near the top of the market as far as functionality, you have to have two rotating stages.

Since this is my first post in this thread let me add that I really hope that this product makes it to market. I will also cast my vote for an elegant product that works well with the Red camera and lenses. Cost is an issue but quality plays an equal part. Others have mentioned the Vocas MB-450, it is my other favorite along with the Arri MB-20.
 
Thanks Scott. I've played around with the Vocas as well... that swing away mechanism is crazy. I surprised its not patented... maybe its pending.
 
I vote for 2stage rotating, because you never know what life can bring.
I love the Vocas system i think its elegent anf well thought out, and if it was for the fact viewfactor is making a MB they would have a check with their name right now. I really like the click stop integrated eye brows in the front.

Personally if i can avoid using the big eyebrow as much as possible the better. Theres always a time when its needed but i really think people leave it one more often then not just cause it makes the camera look cool.
(i just dont know how usefull the mini eyebrows are and if they clear wides)


Hell if you want to make a badass accessory make a eyeglass holder that clips onto the rods, im always looking for places to put them.

But in all seriouse-nes there are alays going to be special needs and thats why there are sepcial mattboxs for lenses like S4 Hand Held or and Optimo Studio work, we know that, But i want my RED system to be complete and i see this as a way to have a fully integrated system, kinda like what ARRI did with the 235 or the SRIII. It had these great accessories that just fit all together and you had the feeling of handeling a system. hell even the colors matched.

And as far as i have seen from RED and Curt, i will not except anything less.

the devil is in the details, remember.
 
Hi Curt

just chimed in to remind you not to forget the folks that use Cooke zooms. My 20-100 has got a front diameter of 14.5 cm. The MB 20 does not fit, it's simply to small. The Cooke zooms are widely used lenses and not the only 35mm lens that has such a big diameter on the front end, the RED 300 should be pretty huge as well, I suppose.

Please make it as versatile as possible. Most matteboxes aim towards the 2/3 Cameras. Although Arri is building 35mm cameras the MB 20 is made for the 2/3 market in mind (HDCAM, etc...) Since RED is a digital 35mm camera it makes sense to check the other Arri matteboxes, especially the ones dedicated for 35mm.

Hans
 
Hearing of the other opinions, wouldn´t it then make make sense to make it modular and have a couple of different filter stages? dual rotatable, single rotatable, no rotatable? I mean there will be people who never use one or the other.

But then I have to ask Curt: Does it make a huge difference in terms of production costs for you to generally include two rotatable+shiftable filter stages over some modular system like I told above?
 
CVB said:
Now I have another question.. Does anyone every use two grads at a time? If not then technically only one of the trays needs to have up and down travel correct? I'm just trying to get all the facts straight before I finish off some of the bigger details.
Click to expand...

An example of a time you would need two grads is when you have snow on the ground over expossed and a grey sky. If you wanted a more blue sky you would need to put a blue grad for the sky on the top and a ND grad for the snow on the bottom. They would both have to rotate so you could set them on the horizon. The combination of a soft edge and hard edge like mentioned is also sometimes done. 2 trays that rotate and allow up/down grad settings should cover most everyone.
 
Is this the reservation line?

Is this the reservation line?

Curt you got my vote.

Where do I put down a reservation?

Do I get a titanium "VF" ? :biggrin:
 
CVB said:
..does anyone take advantage of the 360 degree rotation of the filters? It seems to me that 180 degrees of rotation would be more than enough..
Click to expand...

Think so too - 180 max.

Alexander Nikishin said:
A set of filter trays that allow for 4x4, 4x5, 5x5, 5x6, or 6x6 filters...
Click to expand...

Let me just say, I have 6x6s... In case you need to rotate for S35.. just had a request for that.

CVB said:
I'm trying my best to meet the majority of the requests but there are a few that don't work well together.
Click to expand...

We know that. Thanks for the effort and listening anyway!

CVB said:
Does anyone every use two grads at a time? If not then technically only one of the trays needs to have up and down travel correct? I'm just trying to get all the facts straight before I finish off some of the bigger details.
Click to expand...

Uncommon, but possible. The same demanding D.P. said he would use 2 or more less and less. Used to combine many filters decades ago, but now he usually needs only one rotating.

kalone said:
We frequentely combine NDs and grads, so yes, in our case one rotateable should be just fine, we never used more than one filter that needed to be rotated.
One situation where two rotatable slots could be required is when combining a grad and a pola or an nd grad and a pola.
Click to expand...

(Thought exactly the same.)
If you plan to build 2 rotating stages, whats more versatile of course, one with shift, one without should be enough.
 
Best thing would be to sell the stages, ala petroff:

Features.gif
 
Alex, nice suggestion but its patented.. http://www.google.com/patents?id=XvR3AAAAEBAJ&dq=petroff,+matte+box
I was going to show you guys what I have but I've found that few of my ideas have been patented... so I'm making some tweaks to the design. At least companies like Petroff are actually using their patent rather than sitting on it. Tiffen has a great patent for a tray-less filter system that I haven't seen in the marketplace yet.
 
hey curt,

that's actually good to hear. is the whole idea of modular filter trays patented? if so, bummer, if not... doesn't have to work the same way as petroff's. that said, 3 filter stages is overkill for most people, but I have once used 2 grad NDs and a pola on a shot which worked out well... so it's definitely (though occasionally) useful.

Re: rotation, more than 180 is unnecessary, especially if the filters go in on the side.
 
Hi Curt,

I have resisted posting before on this thread to allow you more time to develop and less time answering !
But since you have asked for some opinions.. my two cents worth after 27 odd years of Matt Box wrangling.

Rotation of the trays.. 360 degree for a rear circular only, 180 is fine for the square-rectangular stages, especially as I suspect it will simplify engineering and reduce cost.

Up and down.. ideally unrestricted.

Stages... definitely a minimum of two Square\Rectangular and one rear circular.

Lens Interface.. a range of donuts should enable compatibility with standard popular lens systems and of course any good assistant carries a black cloth sleeve with elastic ends to take care of odd sizes.
 
getken said:
I may have mentioned this before but a nice feature I saw on another mattebox had a filter holder built into the shade (the inner rectangle portion), that had the ability to tilt forward or backward (I don't know exactly the range but would guess about 10-15mm), effectively being able to redirect lens flare. Although it did not fit all size filters, it seemed like a great idea and could be very useful, especially if it had locking steps in the degree of forward or backward range.
Click to expand...

Good point, this problem has mainly surfaced for me when using Panavision's Primos.
It often manifests itself as "ghosting\double imaging" on a highlight. I just "pop" one of the filters slightly out of vertical alignment.
Usually does the job.
 
Turnover said:
Stages... definitely a minimum of two Square\Rectangular and one rear circular.
Click to expand...

Hi Turnover. I'm a novice so can you explain the need for a circular stage? What filter would you use here? I'm hoping to avoid buying multiple filters of differnt sizes.

Thanks
Alex
 
the circular stage is the one closest to the lens. On the MB20 its a 138mm size and its contained in the bellows adaptor ring. Its my understanding that its used for a pola.
 
This thread is going to be very interesting when all's said and done... it started with acknowledging the problem that there are no good, inexpensive MBs out there... moved onto brainstorming... requesting the attention of some manufacturers... Curt agreeing to make a MB... design requests... design discussion... etc.

Discussion will continue, then renders, then feedback, etc... someday somebody'll post "I just got my VF MatteBox in the mail! Check it out..." in here. :)
 
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