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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Matte Box Woes

Hi Curt

I own an Arri MB 19 and don't like it. Not rugged enough and too small, I've got it for S16 and there it is ok.

If your company are going to design one please keep in mind that there are not only Red Primes and 17-50 zooms but also large Cooke and Angenieux zooms which also need a proper Mattebox. The only rugged production Mattebox which is not too big, but big enough to cover all lenses I came across yet is the Arri MB 16 which unfortunately I have to buy in case you build a Mattebox like the MB 20. The MB 20 is designed with the 2/3 HD folks in mind and is not usable for grown up 35mm zooms, although it is a nice mattebox.

Follow focus is another thing. There Arri is the benchmark as well. I thought of buying the Arri LLF 1 which is for handheld EFP jobs the perfect beast. Very high quality. And I mus say I second Finner on this: Film gear (as any gear you have to rely on) must be made in the best possible way, quality is key. No film gear snobbism.

Build it and I love to buy it,

Hans
 
Hans von Sonntag said:
I came across yet is the Arri MB 16 which unfortunately I have to buy in case you build a Mattebox like the MB 20. The MB 20 is designed with the 2/3 HD folks in mind and is not usable for grown up 35mm zooms, although it is a nice mattebox.
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I think if you can afford a fast cine zoom lens the pricing of the mattebox is sort of trivial. :bleh:
 
AppliedVisual said:
Yes, I would love to see a RED mattebox.

The Arri MB19 and MB20 are way overpriced for what they are. Red Rock looks like it's going to be problematic and too cheaply made. I'm probably going with either the Cavision or Vocas mattebox, but will hope for something better. I had the Vocas/Century mattebox for a while (used with HV200 and RedRock M2 adapter) and it was OK. Nowhere near as nice as the Arri or Chrosziel ones, but it was priced right... < $800 at the time.
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Do not get the Cavision! I made that mistake once already the are beyond cheap! The Vocus is nice but it costs as much as the ARRI. Bite the bullet and get the ARRI it is a name every one knows and trusts you cant go wrong!
 
Hans von Sonntag said:
If your company are going to design one please keep in mind that there are not only Red Primes and 17-50 zooms but also large Cooke and Angenieux zooms which also need a proper Mattebox. The only rugged production Mattebox which is not too big, but big enough to cover all lenses I came across yet is the Arri MB 16 which unfortunately I have to buy in case you build a Mattebox like the MB 20. The MB 20 is designed with the 2/3 HD folks in mind and is not usable for grown up 35mm zooms, although it is a nice mattebox.
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Hans You make a great point here. I really see no reason why the design of a matte box cant have the size needed for cine lenses and zooms but also the new features of the 20. If a matte box is indeed built I am sure it will be big enough for the red300 which is not small by any means. So I could see it being the size you are looking for.
 
This is a no-brainer. The folks at Red have their hands full at the moment so they subcontract the task to View Factor. Jim, Matt and co. consult on design and ensure Red-calibre quality, and Curt blows them away with his engineering genius. Build the best damn matte box possible at the $1500-$2000 price point and get it out there by August-September. Split the winnings. Share the credit. It works for View Factor because - alas - more people would be inclined to buy a Red branded matte box (one stop shopping, comfort and snobbery all playing a factor). And Red would do well by offering a complete camera package at a time when everyone is looking, and many (most) of us are buying - not 6 or 12 months later.

I think the important issue is timing. I myself (being paranoid and a bit dumb) began seriously shopping for PL mount lenses about six months ago because:
A.) I wasn't hearing anything concrete from Red
B.) I needed lenses the minute my Red arrived (duh!)
C.) I'm a bit dumb (already said that)....and...
D.) I was nervous that the used PL mount market would explode (which it has). In January I found a great deal for a quality Zeiss super speed and scooped it up. Now, due to recent NAB announcements, I am looking at getting the Red 18-50 zoom as well as the prime set. So the way it has worked out, I will have 25mm covered on THREE separate lenses. I may have no looks, brains or talent, but I can cover medium-wides like no-bodies business! :blush:

I know this analogy is silly but I think it reflects the mental state of many 'getting into Red'. We want to start shooting when it arrives - as a complete, no-compromise package. The first year in the field is going to be the litmus test for Red's acceptance by snobby crews and nay-sayers in the industry. Does Red really want us shooting with crappy, temporary, plastic accessories while we wait for them to make an announcement and/or save for something of quality? Or do they want us spending all our available cash on Arri accessories, leaving little left for LCDs, EVFs, flash, cages and all the other lovely crimson swag.

For the love of God - all I'm doing is making a sincere and heart-felt appeal to your sense of greed. IS THAT SO WRONG?

So ya - Red talk to View Factor. View Factor talk to Red. Make it work. I promise I'll only take 5% for brokering the deal! :whistling:

P.S - the same logic (some call it genius) applies to follow focus
P.P.S - sorry about the caffeine.
 
I'm annoyed that this deal hasn't gone through yet. It's been half an hour and no announcements, no internet buzz - nothing. The people are waiting!

Please don't doubt my match-making powers. My ex-girlfriend married one of my best friends - and now they're making beautiful babies together. And those babies may grow up to do great things - like steal other people's girlfriends... That's how dedicated I am to the art of the hook-up.

Jim... Curt... you really have no choice in this matter. It's in the stars. I have foreseen it. Search your feelings... you know it to be true. Together you can destroy the MB-20 and rule the galaxy togeth..... oh never mind....
 
lol. I'll see what I can do. I'm renting an Arri MB20 tomorrow and over the weekend, I'll have something started by Monday.
 
damonbots said:
RED beer... mmmmmmmmm
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Just found this thread... and I couldn't help snapping this pic since the beer was sitting right there in the fridge.

red-beer.jpg
 
Ya know this was a market I researched a few years back...

Its been ripe for the takin for quite a while now. Whenever you have a specialized market that sells low quantity, you generally have to deal with astronomical prices.

Matte Boxes have their engineering challenges, sure... but lets be real people, its a friggin box with some flaps and slots to slide in filters. The entire camera accessory market is ripe for a companies like Curts and Red to come in and steal it away. The reason its finally going to happen now is because we have this insane camera acting as a catalyst.

It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out how RED can sell their stuff so much cheaper. Instead of selling 150 F-950's at $120,000/pop (which equals 18 million) they'll sell several thousand. Sure there are a few thousand reservations now (something like 2,000) but the damn camera hasnt even shipped yet. I project RED selling several thousand units over the next year. Lets be very conservative and say 3,000 units. Lets say the average customer spends 25,000... well thats 75 million dollars. These are obviously extremely rough numbers and I seem to have gone off topic here but my point is we will now see those same economies of scale applied to the accessories market as well. The Matte Boxes and Follow Focus are two of the most overprices camera accessories on the market.

I look forward to Monday Curt, keep us informed!
 
Great thread! Thank you for posting Finner.

Curt, please put me down for your matte box system as well. I am ready to give you a deposit if and when you decide to do so. I agree with many here-- no matter how I tried to slice it, I always came back to the Arri mb-20. I am very glad that you are on it!

Now, I have a request. At some point please take a look at the P+S Technik SKATER Mini. I understand the patent issues and the serious redesign, but this tool would be an amazing extension to one's craft. I will be renting a SKATER Mini soon and I will have a toolmaker/machinists "look" at it so I can have something very similar, but most likely not quite the same. My brother, the machinist, can tell me what we can and cannot build (many variables like tools available, # of man hours,etc. like I said- I do not know-not my field- ). At least it will be another opportunity for me to learn. But, I think you and your brothers could do something quite special and bulletproof.
 
I have an MB20 in my possession for the next few days/weeks depending on how it works out. It's a fairly specific set up for a Varicam on 15/60s, but if anybody has any questions or wants any specific pictures... just ask.
 
OK, I now have a MB20 in my possession.:devil:

Andrew... the Skater is a cool little piece of gadget. Don't forget about the RED motors... there is the possibility of building a rig around those to get alot of the shots that the Skater can do. I'm not sure what patents they have but there are always ways to get similar functionality without infringing on anything.
 
Brook Willard said:
I have an MB20 in my possession for the next few days/weeks depending on how it works out. It's a fairly specific set up for a Varicam on 15/60s, but if anybody has any questions or wants any specific pictures... just ask.
Click to expand...

Okay...first disassemble it into its component parts, than place each part carefully on graph paper, place that on an animation stand and photograph it, we than take those shots, pull 'em into Coreldraw and autotrace to form eps's ,then we get out the laser cutter....


and yes, I am kidding.
 
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