Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Matte Box Woes Revisited

I agree.. Arri has indeed been doing it far longer. im just amped that new guys are coming out and saying "we can do it cheaper". But like you said.. arri charges more because they dont sell that many.. But now with a whole new indi market... RR can afford to sell their matteboxes at a much much more attractive price and still plan on selling a bunch.
I do plan on renting my camera out.. even more reason why I want to get the best deal as possible on accessories. id rather someone run over my 500$ mattebox then my $3500 mattebox:)
 
This reminds me of Avid vs. FCP. Avid gouged their customers for years (in my opinion) because they could. FCP provided a reasonable alternative based more on volume. I'm betting Red Rock is going to do their best to compete with the higher end matte boxes in quality. Worst case, I can replace the RR 6 additional times with a new one for the same money.
 
zakaree said:
I agree.. Arri has indeed been doing it far longer. im just amped that new guys are coming out and saying "we can do it cheaper". But like you said.. arri charges more because they dont sell that many.. But now with a whole new indi market... RR can afford to sell their matteboxes at a much much more attractive price and still plan on selling a bunch.
I do plan on renting my camera out.. even more reason why I want to get the best deal as possible on accessories. id rather someone run over my 500$ mattebox then my $3500 mattebox:)
Click to expand...

I'm still concerned about build quality. If I can get away with a $500 mattebox that's as good quality, I will buy it. I know that Curt rented a MB-20 to look at the Arri design on how to improve it. That's the mattebox I am really looking to buy in the end.

Actually, I rather have someone run over my $3500 mattebox and let their insurance pay for a new one. But that's what a deposit and insurance from each rental customer is for!

Matthew
 
microMB_backcopy.jpg


I aint leavin till i change your mind matthew :)

I personally think the RR MB looks almost as sturdy if not more than the mb20...

its defiantly based off the arri design...
 
I agree about Redrock's being a great company but there is another reason I am looking forward to their mattebox release: I purchased and once owned a Redrock M2 35mm Adapter and know first hand about the build quality of their products.

First of all, there was something like a two month wait time when I ordered their 35mm adapter. This was due in part to the high demand of the product but also because they did not mass produce them. They were made for each customer in the USA and had a serial number. These were not made in China (like Cavision's products) nor rolled off of an assembly line.

The build, finish, and engineering of their rod support system, for example, was incredible for the cost. I have owned and used Cavision, Chrosziel, and Cinetech rod support systems and matteboxes before. For the money, versatility, and build, the Redrock was hands down the winner for me. If the mattebox is anything like their rod support system, then I am sold.
 
I just hope there aren't any huge design flaws in the RR mattebox like having to take the M2 Adapter off the rods to replace the battery.
 
deadmike said:
I just hope there aren't any huge design flaws in the RR mattebox like having to take the M2 Adapter off the rods to replace the battery.
Click to expand...

thats an issue for adapter users.. personally i wouldnt care, because i aint using this with an adapter.. even still its a swing away so im sure there would be no problems for adapter users
 
Sorry, I didn't word that very well. I was just talking about the battery issue with the adapter being a design flaw. I'm just hoping the mattebox doesn't have any issues of that magnitude.
 
zakaree said:
microMB_backcopy.jpg


I aint leavin till i change your mind matthew :)

I personally think the RR MB looks almost as sturdy if not more than the mb20...

its defiantly based off the arri design...
Click to expand...

Picture wise, it looks great. Very nice and professional. I guess my main problem right now is there has been very little info about it. I've only heard one person say, "I saw it in person at cinegear and it looks like it'll be good quality." If it's been proven by the time time I get my RED in January, I'll buy it. With that money I saved, I can buy the RED LCD and a nicer follow focus. Here are two more concerns. First, this sucker might be alot heavier then the Arri. Now true, it most studio stuff, it doesn't matter. Second,....since the RED doesn't have ND built in, you are going to be using a mattebox on a TON of stuff. For something that is CRUCIAL, you want to make sure it works better than you need.

From past experience, I have learn when it is wise to go the cheaper route, or when it's wise to pay the big $$$'s for something that's gonna work right each time.

So let me just hope....please let RR be as good quality as Arri...daddy needs that $3200!

Matthew
 
From talking to Brian I believe they used the MB20 and Chrosziel models for examination. After producing an early concept design with spec I spoke to him via email a few times. He then came over to this board and spoke about the mattebox and after viewing the obvious potential and demand for high quality gear to be used with RedOne went away and completely revised the build. Putting in more and more features, the matte box even allows 6x6 filters now, compared to the MB20's 5x6 maximum as well as swing away.

His early reports estimated the weight to be on a par with the MB20 so I don't suppose there will be much significant difference.

Build quality will certainly be an issue, but I have a lot of faith that RR can put something together that meets the demands of the indie budget and high end users alike. For the price difference if they succeed they will certainly be onto a winner, I think even Curt admitted they had to step up their ideas having seen what RR were doing for the price!
 
Just a quick FYI... the main reason its taking us so long to get a rendering up is that I don't like to just throw stuff together to make a pretty picture... I engineer the crap out of something several times before I even bother making a rendering. I have dissected the MB-20, the VOCAS, and had a look at several patents relating to matteboxes (BTW, I think RR may be infringing on one). Like someone else said before... it looks like matte boxes are simple but they are far from it - just figuring out how the FOV of various lenses interacts with the design is a pain. I want to set the record straight and let people know that its not worth our time to make a lack luster product that doesn't perform.

I'm trying my hardest to get the matte box finished off... as soon as I get two other products in the manufacturing buffer next week I will spend at least a week or two getting something on this board for you guys to have a look at. I can say that we are estimating that the cost will be around $1000-$1200 (TBD) and it will be as good or better than an Arri.
 
CVB said:
I'm trying my hardest to get the matte box finished off... as soon as I get two other products in the manufacturing buffer next week I will spend at least a week or two getting something on this board for you guys to have a look at. I can say that we are estimating that the cost will be around $1000-$1200 (TBD) and it will be as good or better than an Arri.
Click to expand...

If you build a mattebox at that price that is as good as or better than Arri, (and doesn´t look like a toy), I am going to be a costumer! I promise!

My best!
 
Eirik Tyrihjel said:
If you build a mattebox at that price that is as good as or better than Arri, (and doesn´t look like a toy), I am going to be a costumer! I promise!

My best!
Click to expand...

With a price point of $1000-1200, CVB's mattebox has definitely got to be significantly better than the RR mattebox, considering that the RR is only $500. So the question won't be whether it's equal or better than the Arri, but whether its quality justifies choosing it over the RR mattebox.
Let's just wait and see:calm:
 
it's amazing how much discussion these things generate. Let me offer a few comments and observations:

- the picture above is not a rendering: it is the actual microMatteBox (okay, well the actual prototype mattebox). Those that were at Cinegear saw this very one. We never show renderings of products, only pictures.

- The prototype above is a bit chunky right now because it was outputted from a 3d printer. It just ends up being thicker than the final product.

- Redrock's design philosophy is first to consider an affordable price point and a high quality product, and everything goes from there. I absolutely agree the price point for what we are offering is a game-changer. We thought long and hard about what price we *could* charge, and decided in the end we could make something available for much less than what the market will bear. Same is true for 35mm adapters and follow focuses and wireless remotes and just about everything else we consider. Our goal is not to create yet another line of poorly made, inexpensive products. Our goal is to redefine the industry so that we all have the option to own quality important gear rather than have to rent. We have asked some notable high-priced gearmakers how they come up with their pricing structure, and their response is that it's based on the rental market. Redrock has a fundamentally different philosophy here.

- I don't agree that higher price always means higher quality. I think Red demonstrates that as well.

- More options for all of us in the end. How can that be bad? :)


Brian
 
Agreed Brian... please don't take my comments the wrong way. I love what you guys are doing for the industry and we are on the same side as far as I'm concerned. BTW.. I'd keep an eye on the stackable stage design, theres a very broad patent claim on that topic.
 
Will you be doing top french flag and side adjustable wings? I really want those and hope it comes default with the package!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top