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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

MARVEL’S "GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY VOL. 2" to be shot on RED 8K WEAPON

I just read James Gunn facebook post, is perfectly worded and right on the pulse of what's going on: https://www.facebook.com/jgunn/posts/10153095262726157

Anyone doing complex compositing mixing "real" characters with performance capture, this camera will be such a dream. I'm contanstantly with the dragon 6k mapping/projecting it into 8k frames so I can have a clean 2k & 4k output. Any compositing details from this production and/or lessons learned on performance capture to r3d compositing would be extremely appreciated.
 
Was this shot with VV Dragon 8K or Helium 8K?
 
The VV was used in one or two episodes of Daredevil, correct? There was one particularly noire episode that was absolutely Stunning. I don't remember, was it season 2 episode 5, or 4? That one had a very, very distinctive look. I think that particular episode(s) really showcase the Vista incredible characteristics.

This will certainly be gorgeous, but I think I can only judge it on the big screen, the shots they selected for the teaser just don't seem to bring out the best of the sensor VV characteristics . Anyway, very, very excited, really had a great time on the first one!
 
Curtis Edlin said:
Was this shot with VV Dragon 8K or Helium 8K?
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There will be a bigger difference between VV and regular Dragon than between Helium and regular Dragon. Even if Helium is the newer sensor, the Vista Vision version of the Dragon has a greater impact on the look and feel of the image. If one were to dwell over which camera to get I would much rather recommend the Vista Vision of the Helium sensor.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
There will be a bigger difference between VV and regular Dragon than between Helium and regular Dragon. Even if Helium is the newer sensor, the Vista Vision version of the Dragon has a greater impact on the look and feel of the image. If one were to dwell over which camera to get I would much rather recommend the Vista Vision of the Helium sensor.
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I don't own either but from what I've seen so far the main advantage Helium has over the Dragon is it's low light capabilities. I don't really believe that will really make a big difference on a Movie of this scale, as a lack of light will unlikely be an issue. In this case I would most definitely choose the 8K VV for it's look over the 8K Helium as well.
Of course the question of how much of that look actually remains at the end, after stopping down, chroma and the entire post production process, but that's an entirely different Story.

Either way, this is easily one of my most anticipated movies of 2017.
 
First off, the VV format changes the geometry in very interesting ways - I'd even go so far as to say it looks more like what we see with our eyes.

Second, in addition to a lower noise floor, Helium should have better color accuracy than Dragon based on reports from people who have been testing it. Just how much differential there is, is hard to judge second hand with beta color matrices/image processing. The other moving piece is highlight rolloff - excellent on Dragon, not so great on Helium when using Dragon biased color/gamma. Phil's comparisons using the RWG 3G10 path suggests that more highlight information will be extractable once we have a more mature Helium color science.

Cheers - #19
 
Visar Sulejmani said:
I don't own either but from what I've seen so far the main advantage Helium has over the Dragon is it's low light capabilities.
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The low light capabilities comes from the lower noise floor due to the higher resolution of the down-sampled image. At 8K both sensors would do almost the same in terms of low light capabilities.


Blair S. Paulsen said:
First off, the VV format changes the geometry in very interesting ways - I'd even go so far as to say it looks more like what we see with our eyes.

Second, in addition to a lower noise floor, Helium should have better color accuracy than Dragon based on reports from people who have been testing it. Just how much differential there is, is hard to judge second hand with beta color matrices/image processing. The other moving piece is highlight rolloff - excellent on Dragon, not so great on Helium when using Dragon biased color/gamma. Phil's comparisons using the RWG 3G10 path suggests that more highlight information will be extractable once we have a more mature Helium color science.

Cheers - #19
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Still, Helium and Dragon are pretty close to each other except for pixel density. The jump between MX and Dragon was huge, but from Dragon to Helium I'm not sure, especially when comparing how Dragon perform on Weapon and even more so at 8K VV. This is why I think the most high end camera right now isn't the 8K Helium but the 8K VV, even if it's a previous generation sensor. It's the same as with Alexa, the Alexa 65 is essentially the same sensor at a larger cut, but there's improvements to the final image because of that difference. It's a little sad that the essential baseline of why people get excited for Helium is that they think Dragon isn't good enough as a sensor. Alexa's sensor is so good that no one really cares or can see real improvements on color science, while everyone is always wanting better color science out of Red.

I still think that Dragon should get a little color science love at the same time as Helium gets it's new color science. There's room for improvements, especially considering the reaction to Panavisions Red camera with Light Iron's color science.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
Alexa's sensor is so good that no one really cares or can see real improvements on color science, while everyone is always wanting better color science out of Red.

I still think that Dragon should get a little color science love at the same time as Helium gets it's new color science. There's room for improvements, especially considering the reaction to Panavisions Red camera with Light Iron's color science.
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What you basically ask for is a look. Reading Graeme and Jarred posts it seems they are more than happy with Red color science. They just chose to focus on accuracy and maths instead of film look like Arri did, and I'm afraid you will have to wait a long time before getting the look you're after out of the box. Helium color science will not be that different colorwise, probably some improvements in roll off and accuracy, but you will not end up with an Alexa.

"while everyone is always wanting better color science out of Red". You and a handful of people discussed it in the past, but 99.9% of Red owners seem to be happy with it, seeing how amazed their comments are for each posted video.

If you want the Alexa look (and even better colors in my opinion) and 4k, you should get a Varicam in the UK. You're in Europe, it's cheaper than a Scarlet-W with the pound being so low. If you don't want to switch but also want the look of the Alexa, you will have a few more years of frustration.
 
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Watched it last night and noticed in addition to the "Shot on RED" logo, James Gunn included a thanks to Red Digital Cinema and Jarred Land specifically. Pretty neat.
 
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