Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Major Announcement...

Status
Not open for further replies.
joelnet said:
That would be surprising - I'm sorta guessing this upgrade will get us to the promised 11 1/3 stops. But if I'm wrong and it's more that'll be even scarier for Arri and Dalsa.
Click to expand...

It's the new real-time HDR upgrade. Yow! :biggrin:

BTW, Jim & team - much thanks again for the evolution of the revolution.
 
that is beautiful news - and worth a delay...

I wonder how many productions, like mine, are waiting on Red...

I suspect well worth the wait
 
You don't strictly need more than 12 bits to record more than 12 stops. You can fit as many stops as you want into as few bits as you want -- you just get more quantization error.

And I suppose you could always do 12 bit log.
 
Brook Willard said:
I'm guessing that the number can't/won't go above 12 stops, unless there's a more dramatic overhaul underway as well?
Click to expand...

I'm no expert on circuitboards and DSPs, but the general consensus seems to be that 12-bit A/D limits the output to a theoretical maximum of 12 stops.

Assuming the sensor actually supplies the A/D with a wider range signal, replacing the board with a 14-bit A/D might help in increasing the dynamic range.

And although you can't really compare Red One with an F23 - the latter claims 13 stops of dynamic range. Jim just might want to match that.

The thing is, even though it's an incredible accomplishment to develop a working camera from scratch in a year - some of the parts that they've designed the camera around will be ... uhm superseeded in performance even before the camera ships. And since they will want to get this one 'right', it's all about cramming in every ounce of power until they just have to let it go.

Maybe building this camera is more like making a movie than I realized: it's never 'finished', only 'abandoned'. At one point Jim will have to let her go...

Until the next firmware update that is... :biggrin:

But I'll happily wait for a bit.
 
Hail to the chief - It's good to be the King

Hail to the chief - It's good to be the King

Great news Jim, thanks.

It sounds like one of your suppliers was able to improve a chip or a circuit faster than expected. This, I'm sure, will have a two-fold benefit - it will let you release a camera with better specs - better to squash more skeptics, and it will let you keep the price down - not having to install another board in the near future. This makes us all happy. Thank you for your astute leadership and vision.

As for comparisons to Steve Jobs... certainly - but also Thomas Jefferson and Abe Lincoln - for to paraphrase them...


"We the people... have the right to pursue life, liberty, and the pursuit of independant motion pictures... that this world, under Jannard, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that creative freedom... of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth but live on under a banner of RED"

Aloha,

Keith
 
They can claim 13 stops for 1080p, but we all know that if you take an image and scale it down, you get lower noise, so at 11.3 stops for 4k, going down to 1080p is going to effectively make our pixels 4 times the size, or you could say, 2 extra stops DR....

That said, a claim of DR is meaningless without the backup of how it was measured.

Graeme
 
Barend Onneweer said:
I'm no expert on circuitboards and DSPs, but the general consensus seems to be that 12-bit A/D limits the output to a theoretical maximum of 12 stops.
Click to expand...

With a 12bit system, you have 12 distinct representational values. It doesn't need to directly correlate with the number of stops within the captured dynamic range. A wider range with more distinct stops than bit levels just requires more interpolation between the values... More quantization errors as Chris said. It could be linear or logarithmic in nature too. Technically, 12bits could capture 24 stops and leave the rest of the DSP pipeline to interpolate the values in between. or it could do 16 stops with a logarithmic curve gaining more stops on the high and low ends if you wanted. But a lot of this still comes back to the sensor and what it can capture. Lots of pro video camera systems out there with 12 or 14 bit DSPs these days. Do they capture a full 12 or 14 stops? Nope.

No reason to speculate on what this means to RED. I think Jim already summed it up saying better range and less grain. We'll know in a few weeks when cameras ship and Gibby and others start their tests.
 
Wow. I just got a camera hardware upgrade mod before I even got my camera.

I can't . . . wow.
 
I don't know what this 12 bit = 12 stop nonsense is. 12 bits can hold 4096 distinct stops or gradations. If you're willing to sacrifice every other stop you could have 8192 stops. You could have 14 stops and 8 bits. Their relationship is completely arbitrary.
 
Graeme Nattress said:
They can claim 13 stops for 1080p, but we all know that if you take an image and scale it down, you get lower noise, so at 11.3 stops for 4k, going down to 1080p is going to effectively make our pixels 4 times the size, or you could say, 2 extra stops DR....

That said, a claim of DR is meaningless without the backup of how it was measured.
Click to expand...

Absolutely true. It's apples and oranges anyway. I was basically saying it seems that Jims wants to blow everyone's socks off with the release of Red One. And now that he's got expectations off the charts he's still aiming to exceed those...

Can't argue with that. Or at least I won't :-) I'll just happily wait until number 368 comes up.
 
Heck, I don't mind if it negates major upgrades soon after receiving the camera. Good choice to include it now...

Is this what the 90% feature complete meant ?
Will you be changing that chart too?, or is this independent of that ?

I'm still not sure what's 90 % feature enabled, 98% feature enabled. I was thinking of waiting to get the 90% feature enabled version (sounds close enough to me). My co-producer thinks i'm bananas. :-)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top