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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

"Magic Motion"...

Question... I understand that when you remove one of the streams, you are left with regular DR and motion...but wouldn't that stream be under or over-exposed and therefore unusable, or am I missing something? The camera only records 2 streams right? (Not that it would matter. This is amazing. I'm just curious)
 
Steve Wake said:
Q3: Is it possible to go the other way, and have the Leading Edge the sharpest and brightest? This was Adam Wilt's question to Jim, and I'm wondering if it would look the smoothest of all. I know Jim's answer was "That would be an interesting science experiment." But if it results in smoother blur or even a new look with artistic potential (Adam Wilt called it the "comic book" look), can you try it?
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Possible in camera or not, you only need to play a clip backwards to check what the opposite blur/trail would look like:leaving:
 
Matthew Cernohorsky said:
Question... I understand that when you remove one of the streams, you are left with regular DR and motion...but wouldn't that stream be under or over-exposed and therefore unusable, or am I missing something? The camera only records 2 streams right? (Not that it would matter. This is amazing. I'm just curious)
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As i understand it there is the "normal" stream that is exposed how you set it and has normal motion blur and then the HDRx stream is a much shorter exposure that protects the highlights and is much sharper. The magic comes in combining the two in a way that looks natural.
 
Justin O'Neill said:
As i understand it there is the "normal" stream that is exposed how you set it and has normal motion blur and then the HDRx™™ stream is a much shorter exposure that protects the highlights and is much sharper. The magic comes in combining the two in a way that looks natural.
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So then there isn't a separate exposure to protect your shadows? I think there must be something going on here that we're not picking up on. If what you're saying is true, the shadows wouldn't be "affected."

EDIT: could there possibly be 3 exposures? 1 under-exposed, one over-exposed, and one regular? The slider just somehow adjusts a (FLUT?) value to determine how varied the exposures are?
Also, is there any temporal difference between the exposures, which is then compensated for via Graem's magic?
 
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I think you just expose to the shadows and HDRx holds everything else for you. This is the same Mysterium-X sensor we are using in our RED Ones so it's not like the sensor is more sensitive to low light. It's just that you can expose to the darker areas and the HDR comes from holding detail in the highlights.

Jannard said:
Shoot normal ISO and get more highlight protection than you could ever imagine. The shadows have never been an issue. Clean... noiseless images that cover any scene.

Jim
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Jim has said quite a few times that there is no termporal shift going on. Both streams are from the exact same instant in time.

Jannard said:
We are just beginning to test HDRx under a variety of conditions... so far we are wildly happy with the results. But there are still lots of situations to go. The fact that the two streams are "conjoined" is a huge deal. If they weren't, an HDR mode could only be used with slowest motion scenes. We like the images we are getting with high motion or pans better than in normal mode. It is still early. Testing continues. The cautious side of me thinks we may run into an exception somewhere (haven't seen it yet)... good news is that if that does happen, you can ignore the "x" frame stream and have normal mode even after you have shot.

Jim
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Occasionally there are beautiful things that we make - things that change the world of a few, dazzle many, and open doors to all. I thought back in 2006 when I was at NAB and saw this cool tent and people buying metal icons for a grand that I was witnessing one of those moments in history that would lead to a beautiful thing.

I know many that were there had the same secret thought, the same secret hope - and we were not disappointed. We saw the rise of RED and the beginning of an evolutionary leap that in just 4 short years has born out the most amazing and enabling tool we could have ever begged to own.

And here we are again.

Same company, same idea: erase the standard. Rewrite it. Make it better. Force the world to understand that there really is a better way to do something - by taking the initiative and DOING IT. Show the world that that better way - while grueling and arduous - is something that you will be remembered for in a way that few people are.

I have never been so happy to throw my money at anyone as I am to throw my money at you guys - because I couldn't have even hoped to have come close to dreaming up what you guys have actually made.

Thanks again for keeping things truly exciting. And yes, vote Graham in for a Technical Oscar - maybe two.
 
Will "the Foundry option" be limited to Nuke, or will Storm have it too?
 
Brian Langeman said:
Will "the Foundry option" be limited to Nuke, or will Storm have it too?
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It looks like they are building it into the SDK so any program that uses it should be able to handle HDRx and Magic Motion.

Jim's response to a question about how you process HDRx footage:

Jannard said:
Great question... we will give you a free option through REDCINE-X. I'm quite sure there will be a Storm option... and an SDK option for the others. We are in the business of giving our customers what they need.

Jim
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John Marchant said:
Possible in camera or not, you only need to play a clip backwards to check what the opposite blur/trail would look like:leaving:
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Thanks, but we don't have a motion clip that corresponds to the left photo (yet), so I can't do that.

And I don't have enough imagination to interpolate what the fire engine from the Vegas clip would look like going forwards with the same blur that it displays when played backwards (i.e Magic Motion traveling in reverse with the headlights toward the front is not the same as traveling forward with trailing blur).
 
So is the left image the most magic, and the right is closest to film motion blur?

And which end is it that "people" believe the eye sees naturally? Waving my hand in front of my face I'd say the left end is more what my eye sees.

Cory
 
That's question needs further investigation. A student of mine recently finished her master thesis about human perception of motion in the context of better compression algorithms and for a start made a very detailed summary of what science knows about human image processing in the eye and the brain (yes, both are processing, the retina is a bio-computer).

It's complexity is mind-blowing and still not fully understood. So, I think RED ran into a very interesting effect accidentially with their "Magic Motion" while developing HDRx™™™ and we might need another scientific project to find out how it relates to our visual perception.

BTW, the thesis from that lady got a summa-cum-laude.
 
Question : If the pole is rotating clockwise, why is the blur before the pole. Normaly I'll see the blur after the object... or not...
 
Erwin Vanderhoydonks said:
Question : If the pole is rotating clockwise, why is the blur before the pole. Normaly I'll see the blur after the object... or not...
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Because the readout is from the first few resets of the exposure.

Exposure.... (Readout) ... Expossssssssssssssssssssure.
 
I'd be very interested to see the MM™ stills against a single exposure of the same frame. I assume that you can turn HDRx™ off in the R3D file and just access a single RAW exposure? [That's making a lot of assumptions about how it all works, naturally]
 
I love this. I just love this.

Jannard said:
There are so many options... but that is what separates a professional from a consumer. You just have to learn stuff and then know which option fits the situation.

Jim
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