Macro cinematography techniques

[Jean Déraps]

I'm interested in doing some macro cinematography with my RED camera. I have a kit of the RED Pro primes. I also have a Nikon mount with some Nikon lenses (my 35-70 mm F2 .8 Nikkor sort of has a "micro" macro mode). I'd like to know what would be the best way of going about doing macro shoots... would I need some close-up diopters, bellows, etc. I'd love to hear your suggestions.

 

[John Burnley]

As a longtime Nikon still shooter, you can either add a micro Nikkor or two to your lens selection (such as the 55mm f2.8 or the 105mm f2.8 or f4) OR for considerably less money buy a couple of achromatic diopters (two element close up lenses) of different strengths to use on your existing 35-70mm OR on the Red Pro Primes. Achromatic diopter lenses are made by Century (now Schneider), Marumi, Hoya, Sigma and others. Nikon used to make these as well but now discontinued. The sharpness of the achromatic lenses, when used on a quality prime lens or zoom, is excellent. They can be somewhat smaller than your prime lens filter size without vignetting due to the magnification factor (attach with a step down ring) but do test for any possible vignetting prior to serious usage. For extreme macro a bellows and 55mm micro-Nikkor will get you there.

 

[Jean Déraps]

Many thanks for the info John. When you say somewhat smaller, do you think, for instance, a 77mm diopter (which would fit on some of the Nikkor lenses) could possibly cut it on a RED prime? Also, which RED prime would be best suited for this type of shooting? (I just checked out the Century/Schneider diopters which have a 72mm size, and am wondering whether this with do the trick....?)

 

[Dylan Macleod CSC]

You should also explore "wide angle" macro options. Kind of pricey system, but you can get some fantastic results with the Revolution Lens system. Small wide angle lenses and you can focus pretty much to the front surface of the lens.

http://www.clairmont.com/spec_items/rev_lens.html

Zeiss also make "close focus" primes in wider focal lengths, but they are harder to light for because the whole camera body ends up so close to the subject/object.

 

[Carlbattreall]

I think the first question is what do you plan on filming? How much working distance do you need between you and your subject? This plays a major role in the selection of macro equipment.

 

[Jean Déraps]

I would like to film tiny creatures (such as bees, ants), flowers (detail of pistils for eg.), close-ups of eyes being made-up (mascara, liner, etc), among many other things.

 

[Shane Kelly]

get a hold of a nikon bellows ( see here: http://www.nikonians.org/html/resources/nikon_articles/other/close-up_macro/macro_8a.html ) you may have to make some modifications to get it on the red but it'll give you a lot of flexibility once you figure it out. Also, you can use your existing lenses.
Do a search for "nikon bellows" on ebay, there's lots of them on there.
Of course, the Revolution lens system is awesome too but may be out of your range.

 

[Vance Colvig]

Nikon is renouned for their macro lenses, although they call them "Micro" (for your Ebay searching pleasure). They have made many models and focal lengths. As a rule, standard lenses with either diopter (close up) lenses or bellows preform rather poorly as compared to a quality macro. For Nikon Micro lens reviews:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/nikkor.htm

 

[JD Holloway]

A couple of options listed here last week.
Perhaps a little off topic for the original post though.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=42197
What's your budget? What's your project idea, or are you just having fun?

I missed a PL Nikkor 105mm macro on ebay last month.
Went for around 1200 USD. Should have bought it...
There are many ways to shoot macro. Some easier than others.

 

[Carlbattreall]

Jean,
For insects you need to be far away from your subject, especially with a large movie camera, so I would actually get a macro lens that is at least 150mm or 180mm. I use the Tamrom 180mm macro. Try to avoid diopters and screw on filters, you will be too close to your subject and it is difficult to get 1:1 ratio with those and your big profile will cast a large shadow on your subject. With that said, I have used a Century macro add on lens on my EX1 to film bees.

You will need good, solid support, any movement will be very obvious, especially when seen on a large screen. I have even used a follow focus with a whip so I would not be touching the camera when changing focus.

A bellows system will get you beyond 1:1, into the true micro world, but usually you will be stuck to a studio environment.

Doing macro work with the RED is a difficult, much more than with a DSLR.

Good Luck,
Carl

 

[John Burnley]

Many thanks for the info John. When you say somewhat smaller, do you think, for instance, a 77mm diopter (which would fit on some of the Nikkor lenses) could possibly cut it on a RED prime? Also, which RED prime would be best suited for this type of shooting? (I just checked out the Century/Schneider diopters which have a 72mm size, and am wondering whether this with do the trick....?)

Jean, you should be able to step down about 10-20% or more without vignetting with a +2 or +3. With a +5 maybe 30-40%. I don't know the filter sizes of the Red Primes so cannot address them specifically with step down size suggestions. I used a 62mm +1.5 achromatic diopter (Nikon 5T, now discontinued) on the 16X zoom of the Canon XL1 (has 72mm threads) with NO vignetting even at the widest setting on the zoom.

As a general rule with achromatic diopters they are most perfectly suited to moderate telephotos and "might" create sharpness issues at the edges or corners with wide angles where regular single element diopters "might" fare as well or better. Test if there is a serious ultra close use contemplated with wides.

Achromatic diopters used on a quality zoom or prime will have superb sharpness (totally unlike single element diopters which render soft images) in my experience. In many cases quality will be difficult to distinguish from micro-Nikkors under working or field conditions. I've used both means of getting nature closeups extensively.

Using a Nikon bellows (with a Nikkor prime lens) is a great way to get in close as well and with a huge range of magnification ratios.

If you are working on insects and other very small creatures that might be disturbed by close proximity, the 200mm f4 Micro Nikkor (non ED model) has superb sharpness and will give a good working distance. Close focusing beyond the lens 1:2 ratio can be achieved with extension tubes, a bellows, or achromatic diopter added REVERSED to the front of the lens (not used myself but many nature photographers state for this lens diopter needs to be reversed for best sharpness).