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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

M-X upgrade for R1 is coming up soon!!!

Mark L. Pederson said:
I think it would be awesome to pay a slightly higher upgrade charge - get an Epix-X AND an MX sensor in the Red One and KEEP the Red One as a B camera.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't that just be getting the upgrade, and then paying full price ($28K) for the EPIC-X so you can keep the RED ONE? It's one of the options in Jon's post...
 
Stephen Gentle said:
Wouldn't that just be getting the upgrade, and then paying full price ($28K) for the EPIC-X so you can keep the RED ONE? It's one of the options in Jon's post...
Click to expand...

I was suggesting a "slightly higher upgrade charge" as opposed to "paying full price" - to get an MX into the R1, keep it + get the Epic-X (a combo deal). I know it's not exactly logical ... but none of this stuff is, right?

Link to Jon's post?
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
I was suggesting a "slightly higher upgrade charge" as opposed to "paying full price" - to get an MX into the R1, keep it + get the Epic-X (a combo deal). I know it's not exactly logical ... but none of this stuff is, right?

Link to Jon's post?
Click to expand...

Mark,

here it is>>>
 
Stephen Williams said:
Hi Sanjin,

For the few who voided their warranties you may be right, most will prefer the new cameras, for quicker start up times, better battery performance, less compression & the lower price of Scarlet to name a few.

Stephen
Click to expand...

Stephen,

1. Nothing to do with warranty.

2. Quicker start time sounds good but is not so big need.

3. Better battery performance you can get right now with use of another batteries but still nothing wrong with RED old batteries. I have 4x, 2x chargers.

4. Less compression also sounds good but if you know to deal with RED now you can handle it.

5. As Jim mentioned before Scarlet is more inferior camera than RED1 with Mysterium-X upgraded, has more fps speed, etc...

6. Btw, are you RED owner because you sound like a somebody that is (sometimes) renting it?!
 
I'm a little confused. It seems to me that with the 17500 credit (and free modules) Epic X is the essential move for Red owners. Surely the only reasons that anyone would keep the Red 1 and only upgrade the sensor is if the $5500 cost, over the sensor upgrade, is too much for them.

that $5500 cost is nothing for what seems to be offered.

Better mount
Less power consumption
3sec start up time
Lighter body
more configurable
100fps at 5k (and higher with sensor cropping)
Less compression
Machined body
Better business opportunities (for hire market)

Any 2 of these is worth the money in my opinion.

just my pennies worth

Michael L
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
I think it would be awesome to pay a slightly higher upgrade charge - get an Epix-X AND an MX sensor in the Red One and KEEP the Red One as a B camera.
Click to expand...

I would love to do this especially considering the original One's will be the most valuable collectible in years to come.

But that FULL-VALUE trade in option is just too good to pass up for those of us without a lot a money that want to upgrade to the Epic.
 
Curran Giddens said:
I would love to do this especially considering the original One's will be the most valuable collectible in years to come.

But that FULL-VALUE trade in option is just too good to pass up for those of us without a lot a money that want to upgrade to the Epic.
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Hi,

It's very rare for a even an early 35mm film camera to have any real value, even though they still work as they did when new. More RED Ones exist than Mitchell Cameras built over 50 years. I think you will be lucky to sell a RED for more than the trade in value.

Only an original 1-100 non X camera would be rare IMHO, the last one I saw had rusty screws when it was 3 months old with the original epoxy resin intact on the CF unit, as it left the factory.

Stephen
 
Stephen Williams said:
Hi,

It's very rare for a even an early 35mm film camera to have any real value, even though they still work as they did when new. More RED Ones exist than Mitchell Cameras built over 50 years. I think you will be lucky to sell a RED for more than the trade in value.

Only an original 1-100 non X camera would be rare IMHO, the last one I saw had rusty screws when it was 3 months old with the original epoxy resin intact on the CF unit, as it left the factory.

Stephen
Click to expand...

Depends on what you mean by "early"...I have several very early 35mm cameras that are worth a small fortune. The reason Mitchell's aren't worth much is that they were used for so long and most were heavily modified over the years. An all original early Mitchell is worth a good bit.

Jim always said that the first 100 would be rewarded...here's a thought, let the first 100 keep their body...then destroy all the R1's that are traded in. Now it will really be a collectible and the first 100 get their reward.
 
For me, the real key will be the difference between RC42 and the much faster, less compressed RCs on the Epic. If the new sensor gets us images that are 95% of the way to Epic-X, that's what we'll do and then save the trade-in when Monstro arrives. I don't mind the form factor of the One at all. It works for us.

Stephen
 
To be honest I was always asking myself where are Jim's earnings in those huge trade-in program that could consist about 6000 R1 exchange to Epic-X for almost a half of the price.

Just count:

RED ONE body costs US$17,500.

EPIC-X whole package (brain, cf module, battery module, i/o module) costs US$28,000.

Trade-in RED ONE and receive $17,500 credit towards the purchase of an EPIC X S35 Private Reserve package.

To mention that EPIC Pro Cinema S35mm the same you wanted to get in trade-in program officially costs (brain only) US$28,000.

My estimates are that Research and Development together with much higher quality in production of EPIC could be together almost quadrupled compared with RED ONE before.

Somebody could add that also ARRI is making trade-in program but they sold maybe about 30 to 50 of D20 & D21 cameras and is not going to loose money with that trade-in program.

Because of that I would say that here a lot of people are living in SF World or at somehow unrealized future and not even thinking about reality how it is difficult to make something like that at all.

Also don't forget that Jim's signature here always repeat:

""Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates...".
 
How much research and testing value have Red One users, especially early adopters, contributed to the development of the camera over the last two years? Without the input from all of you Sanjin, Epic might not have been nearly as refined as it apparently will be.
 
If you understand normal manufacturing margins, RED won't lose any money on the R1/Epic trade-in program. In fact RED will probably make a good bit of profit since it should generate sales of a couple thousand Epics to the existing R1 owners as opposed to the 200 or 300 R1 owners that would have bought epics without the trade in program.

It also does two other things 1) it guarantees a much higher volume of Epic sales and therefore substantial manufacturing and cost reductions/lower per unit R&D costs and 2) reduces longterm support headaches as it moves most R1 users to the new, more robust platform.

David Rasberry said:
How much research and testing value have Red One users, especially early adopters, contributed to the development of the camera over the last two years
Click to expand...

Not just the input - also about $80 million or more in cash. (estimate 4000 cameras at $20K each - $80 mill)
 
David Rasberry said:
How much research and testing value have Red One users, especially early adopters, contributed to the development of the camera over the last two years? Without the input from all of you Sanjin, Epic might not have been nearly as refined as it apparently will be.
Click to expand...

Car makers are doing that for years.

You get problem with your car and then you go to brand's official car service.

They listen to you and also they can find and see the problem.

All that info is going in a main data base system of the brand and can be used in further "refine" development of any future car.

Do you get trade-in program from your favorite car brand?

The answer is: No.
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
My estimates are that Research and Development together with much higher quality in production of EPIC could be together almost quadrupled compared with RED ONE before.
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I think if you take a long term view it makes more sense. Short term, yeah - it's probably pretty thin margins. But RED has created a pretty nice user base and they just can't let that erode right now.

This is the exact time to double down and make sure as many people adopt the new system as possible. I think they could literally own the entire higher end market with the exception of a few productions within 5 years.

Right now is a pretty interesting time in the marketplace. I think that Canon 7D is going to be f'n monster personally. I know in the real world all I used to hear about from all my up and coming friends was Scarlet. But now I'm hearing about the GH1 and the 7D moreso. That's the current buzz. No one talks about codecs and skew... they just know if something looks cool enough to them. A lot of artists aren't technical. They're just trying to tell a story. And they've only got a certain amount of cash.

I don't doubt RED and Co will respond aggressively because why the hell not? History is currently in the making. Wait and watch what Jim does next. :-)

:emote_popcorn:
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
RED ONE body costs US$17,500.

EPIC-X whole package (brain, cf module, battery module, i/o module) costs US$28,000.

Trade-in RED ONE and receive $17,500 credit towards the purchase of an EPIC X S35 Private Reserve package.
Click to expand...

Sanjin:

Don't confuse "sells for:..." with costs. Many top of the line products sell for a much higher multiplier than costs would dictate because you pay a premium for peak performance. Do you really think a Sony DSR450WSL for $16,500 costs $53,000 more to make than an F900 for $69,900. I would be surprised if it costs even $10000 more.

Michael Hastings said:
If you understand normal manufacturing margins, RED won't lose any money on the R1/Epic trade-in program. In fact RED will probably make a good bit of profit since it should generate sales of a couple thousand Epics to the existing R1 owners as opposed to the 200 or 300 R1 owners that would have bought epics without the trade in program. And I am all for it, I want RED to be financially successful so they will be there to support us and have sufficient profit to keep advancing - that is the essence of good free enterprise.

It also does two other things 1) it guarantees a much higher volume of Epic sales and therefore substantial manufacturing and cost reductions/lower per unit R&D costs and 2) reduces longterm support headaches as it moves most R1 users to the new, more robust platform.
David Rasberry said:
How much research and testing value have Red One users, especially early adopters, contributed to the development of the camera over the last two years? Without the input from all of you Sanjin, Epic might not have been nearly as refined as it apparently will be.
Click to expand...


Not just the input - also about $80 million or more in cash. (estimate 4000 cameras at $20K each - $80 mill)
Click to expand...
 

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