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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

LTO-3 Backup Onsite? Need your input please!

Torrey Loomis

Torrey Loomis

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Folks,

We really need your input on this workflow:

http://silverado.cc/shop/product.php?productid=997&cat=8&page=1

We've put a lot of thought into this workflow and I think we have it nailed from a bunch of different angles:

Flexibility (LTO-3 that works with laptops - both PC and Mac)
Portability (tape backup and RAID that can fit in a carry-on)
Expandability (storage limited only by number of tapes)
Price (way cheaper than an onsite RAID 5 or SAN)
Protection (tapes can be shuttled off-site easily via Fedex or UPS)
Peace of Mind (we cover all the parts in addition to manufacturers warranty)

We are executive producing a feature currently being shot in Sacramento. This backup strategy is being used RIGHT NOW to guarantee the integrity of the "digital negatives" and store multiple backups off-site.

If you have any improvements, please let me know and I'll try to roll them in--if practical.

Torrey
-----------------------------------------------
Torrey Loomis
President & CEO - Silverado Systems, Inc.
Outfitter to the World's Foremost Apple Professionals
2600 East Bidwell Street, Suite 280
Folsom, CA 95630
(916) 760-0032 • FAX (916) 404-5258
tloomis@silverado.cc
http://www.Silverado.cc

Check out our Insider blog at http://silveradosys.blogspot.com
 
I may have a vested interest in this sort of thing, but I'd pretty much written off the idea of LTO-3 backup onsite, for a variety of reasons... I guess one of the reasons was that I'd be inclined to reduce number of load/unload cycles of the cassette to as few as possible... And as in most cases people won't be generating 400GB of data a day (although multiple cameras may change that) and therefore having tapes on set isn't necessary.

That said, it looks like a good package for the most part. Are you offering any software support? One of the big issues for people at the moment is that there is no clear choices for managing the offload process from the cards (RED CF, SxS or P2). A drag and drop often isn't enough (is Windows especially where it will stop with no way to carry on from where it left off if anything goes wrong).
 
Dylan,

True 'dat on the 400Gb with CF cards. However, with the RED RAID in the wild and recording around 300 Gb per useful load, we have folks already interested in using the drive at least every other day--if not daily.

Software with this is super easy--its a Java app that is built into the Quantum LTO-3A drive itself and totally cross-platform. You CAN use an OS-based FTP app, but its not needed.

Torrey
 
It was more the copy from the RED Drives / CF to RAID1+0 setup that I was thinking about.

As for the RED Drive - there's been talk here of not running full loads on the drive, I guess to mitigate potential for loss in the event of a drive failure? But it will clearly be much larger loads.

I'm somewhat tied up with my own solutions to these problems, but given the opportunity I will certainly be looking at the LTO-3A.
 
What LTO3 drive are you using with a laptop, how are you plugging in and what kind of speeds are you getting if you don't mind me asking?

Paul
 
Hi Torrey

Your approach to the download issue is very good. I would love to see more pictures of this station. Is it basically just a Raid and an LTO drive in a pelican case or is there more to it?
Is LTO the only way to get the footage out of the system?

I'm building my own based on a rugged portable computer so you can view and convert footage as well. I didn't put a tape drive in (yet). I'm using 2.5" cardridges or 3.5" SATA drives for transport.

Do you know if the LTO 3A drive can read standard LTO3 tapes? I would like to have an internal LTO drive.

Regards
Simon
 
I don't like to LTO in the field.

Our 600A drive is expensive - it's not super quiet - and I just like to LTO in a nice controlled environment - back at the shop.

Hard drives are so easy to work with in the field - and you can use self-powered for run and gun and "AC-less" situations - GLYPH (http://www.glyphtech.com/site/index.html) makes SUPER quiet drives which are great for sound stage work, etc.

I also do NOT like HARDWARE RAID 1 ENCLOSURES - we had failures (errors or sudden re-builds) on units we tested from the TWO LEADING BRANDS.

I find that making TWO separate copies, one at a time, to two separate drives, with checksum - gives the most piece-of-mind.

My 2 cents.
 
What archive software are you using with the LTO 3?

Is it just tar archive or something like Retrospect?
 
I've been using the a esata express card slot on my 17' Macbook Pro and the crutch of it all is that damned spring-loaded express slot. One bump and you could have a corrupted file. What are you doing to "lock" that in place the express card on your system?

Also what are you doing to battle dust in the system? Studios and Location shooting are very dusty places especially if there using smoke or "snow" candles on-set etc.
 
Dane Brehm said:
Also what are you doing to battle dust in the system? Studios and Location shooting are very dusty places especially if there using smoke or "snow" candles on-set etc.
Click to expand...

YES - this is another reason why I don't want to LTO in the field.

and yeah, that express-slot thing is a disaster - use FW800 + CF reader
 
I would say it would be okay to wipe the CF and reuse, once a confirmed primary, secondary and TLO backup's are done. The Primary should be a RAID 5 and secondary a strait copy of the RAID 5. Divide everything up into 1.5TB chunks (4x500gb in raid 5). So you can lock up your secondary at another location once full. On set, create copies on two hard drives and keep CF. Best thing to do.
 
I'd say once you have duplicate copies of the media you're okay to reuse the CF card, at that point you have at least the security offered by a video tape or film in a traditional workflow.

LTO for archival storage (to be made as soon as practical I guess).

While it's scary using files as the acquisition medium (we've all lost files in computer incidents) - by the time we have duplicate copies, especially in physically separate locations, we're already better protected than we usually are with any film or tape based method.
 
Paul,

Its the Quantum LTO-3A drive. Realistic speeds are about 38-40 MB/s over the complete backup.

Here is a HUGE tip. Get rid of the proxy files on the backup. Since this is an FTP-based backup, there is a lot of handshaking going on back-and-forth on each file. The drive actually works faster with fewer files that are larger versus a bunch of tiny files--like proxies.

Torrey
 
Simon,

Edit is below--research done at Quantum site...

Torrey
 
Thomas,

Its a browser-based Java app.

Torrey
 
zak forrest said:
I just received my quantum superloader today (lto3). whats so bad about it?
Click to expand...

Zak -

I didn't say there was anything "bad" about it. I am just trying to drive home that there are some major advantages with A-Series drives - how it writes the directory - how you can access files.

Also, for what is it is worth, I would NOT take any auto-loader model into the field. On a sub $10K drive - that little robot needs all the help and love it can get.
 
torster said:
Thomas,

Its a browser-based Java app.

Torrey
Click to expand...


Is it a tar archive?

Is the app and drivers going to be available to anyone who may need to read an archived tape?

How will the app check data integrity? Will you need to reread the entire tape?

Is it designed just for manual backup, or is it automated, and can make multiple clones?

Maybe 2 drives should be a better idea, that way 2 copies can be made at once.

Can the software provide a list of what is archived, or will the user need to figure that out beforehand?

If there is more data than what will fit on a single tape, will it just reach the end and ask for another tape, which means that the some data may be divided on 2 tapes. Will it be smarter and calculate how much data will fit on a tape and just write that amount, without partially writing a file.

LTO 3 is robust, but you still don't want to drop it. There are pins in there that can pop out. I would think some heavy field testing would be needed.

I don't know how LTO drives or tapes would handle weather changes.
 
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