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Low-budget setup for monitoring and grading

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Gabor D.

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Hey All,

I'm looking for a low-budget setup for external monitoring and grading. I'm using a Macbook Pro 13".

I heard good things about the Dell Ultrasharp U2410 (or its decessor U2413) monitor. How does it compare to the HP ZR2440? According to specs both monitors seem the same for me... I thought of buying one of these and hook it up via a Blackmagic Ultrastudio Mini Monitor (Thunderbolt in, HDMI and SDI out). What you think of this?What would be a better alternative in this price range?

I thought of the more expensive Apple Cinema Display with Thunderbolt also, but I'm not sure the almost double price worths it...

I know that a good monitor for grading starts at 2-3000 USD, but I simply can't afford that. I know it won't be a compromise-free solution but still better than my current several years old Samsung Syncmaster 223bw monitor...

Thanks
 
Gabor have a look around. there have been several threads that have addressed this and contain some helpful info.
 
Steve Sherrick said:
Gabor have a look around. there have been several threads that have addressed this and contain some helpful info.
Click to expand...

Hi Steve,

Yes, I know... I checked them, but didn't find answers concerning this IO box combo with the Dell U2413 monitor.... I also didn't find anything substantial about the HP ZR monitors like the ZR2440... According to specs its similar to the Dell, but somehow people don't seem to use it....

I'm and I was also considering the Apple Cinema Display. It would be a huge investment for me, but it would be great to get some comparison between this and the above options... is it worth it? And.. Will my newly purchased TB Cinema Display outdated really soon with the release of the new Mac Pro and probably new monitors?

So I checked several forums, but didn't find the answers I need... :(
 
The BMD Ultrastudio Mini Monitor is indeed the most affordable and reliable monitoring solution. Using a directly-attached display like the Apple TB Cinema Display will not work for SW like DaVinci, as they need a dedicated AV monitoring HW, such as the mentioned BMD UMM. So that part you have figured out. What you need now is an affordable monitor that can self-callibrate for color accuracy. Have a look at the EIZO and TV LOGIC ranges...

:sifone: Peter
 
Gabor, EIZO monitors have a long (and very good) reputation - especially with the Desktop Publishing and Graphic Design folks. They present some of the best value for money. You will be pushing hard to get a cheaper solution for color correction. If you can not trust your monitor's colors then the color-grading process is rather mute. There really is no easy way around this...

If you really insist on going for something cheaper - just buy any cheap HDMI small-screen TV and make sure it has proper RGB controls.
Then calibrate it "by eye" using many of the calibration patterns videos / DVDs floating around.

Something like this:

http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/st...10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921666519115

40" for under $ 500 USD

This will go a long way towards a decent calibration and provide you with results unmatched by any computer monitor in this price range...
(make sure to turn OFF all the image "enhancement" functions, such as auto-iris, DNR, etc... If it has a option to turn it OFF - then turn it OFF. Only then calibrate the monitor)

:sifone: Peter
 
Hey, thanks!

It seems great but, could you tell me, in simple terms, why a LED TV is better for color correction then a same priced monitor like Dell Ultrasharp? I see that many people use plasma tvs for cheap color correction. But what's the reason behind these facts?

I don't just want monitoring for color correction, but some workspace extension for my MBP 13". A computer monitor isn't better for that? I can't afford both. I either have to settle for a computer screen or a tv.

With a TV solution like this, do I still need the Blackmagic Ultrastudio Mini Monitor device?

I have a photographer friend who just bought some monitor calibration stuff, maybe xrite or something. Whatever I buy he can help me calibrate it.
 
Gabor D. said:
Hey, thanks!

It seems great but, could you tell me, in simple terms, why a LED TV is better for color correction then a same priced monitor like Dell Ultrasharp? I see that many people use plasma tvs for cheap color correction. But what's the reason behind these facts?
Click to expand...

Because a computer monitor is designed to show you data in an sRGB color space. That is different than a television monitor. You're comparing a computer monitor set up to emulate a television monitor to something that actually IS a television monitor. With proper gamma, some semblance of proper colorspace, and better blacks (in most cases). As long as it's properly calibrated, a television monitor is likely to show you a more reliable image than a computer monitor - most of which cannot really be calibrated, but only profiled. Not to mention that clients will most likely be looking at the results on TV monitors, not computer monitors.

I don't just want monitoring for color correction, but some workspace extension for my MBP 13". A computer monitor isn't better for that? I can't afford both. I either have to settle for a computer screen or a tv.
Click to expand...

How easy it is to do that depends on the computer you're using and the video outputs you have.

With a TV solution like this, do I still need the Blackmagic Ultrastudio Mini Monitor device?
Click to expand...

That depends on what you're using in the computer to output video. If you're using an SDI card, then yes. If you're taking HDMI out from a card that supplies it, then no.
 
Gabor D. said:
It seems great but, could you tell me, in simple terms, why a LED TV is better for color correction then a same priced monitor like Dell Ultrasharp? I see that many people use plasma tvs for cheap color correction. But what's the reason behind these facts?
Click to expand...

The main reason is that you want to see the footage during the calibration on a device similar to what people will use to see it in the end. For the same reason high-end grading for theatrical is done on projectors. Also - the LED TV will hold its color and uniformity better then LCD...


Gabor D. said:
I don't just want monitoring for color correction, but some workspace extension for my MBP 13". A computer monitor isn't better for that? I can't afford both. I either have to settle for a computer screen or a tv.
Click to expand...

You can use the TV as your desktop extension - I am using the same setup with my 17" MBP. You can run a separate HDMI cable directly from the MBP in addition to the one coming from the BMD UMM. You can always keep swapping the same cable between the MBP and BMD UMM if you want to save even more...


Gabor D. said:
With a TV solution like this, do I still need the Blackmagic Ultrastudio Mini Monitor device?
Click to expand...

YES! The whole issue is that all the color grading SW will require you to use a dedicated AV hardware for monitoring output. In the past that would have meant a card like AJA / BMD in a tower. Luckily with the TB on the MBPs we now have a affordable option with the BMD UMM. This you can not skip...


Gabor D. said:
I have a photographer friend who just bought some monitor calibration stuff, maybe xrite or something. Whatever I buy he can help me calibrate it.
Click to expand...

Calibrators like XRITE are only useable on computer monitors - as they do not actually modify the monitor, but rather create a custom LUT (your ICC profile) that tells your computer how each color is displayed on the monitor. When it comes to color correction - this is useless. The signal coming out of the BMD UMM is industry standard REC709 and any adjustment at the computer end is irrelevant. Monitors like the EIZO have a calibration function built into the monitor - so you can calibrate the HW without the computer. But that comes at cost. Unless you save up for such a monitor - your only option is to calibrate "by eye". There are plenty of DVDs. online videos and tutorials that tell you how you can use the included patterns to calibrate your TV to a decent level. Make sure the monitor is connected via the BMD UMM if you are playing out these videos from the MBP (you can use FCP to play it out via the BMD UMM). Alternatively just use a DVD via DVD player connected directly to the TV. Then just follow the steps described in many of the tutorials online...

:sifone: Peter
 
Gabor, why I was saying have a look around is that there have been a number of these threads asking for a cheap solution to monitoring and although the landscape has changed in recent times when it comes to affordable options (FSI, TV Logic) there is still investment required to have accurate monitoring of video signals. From the I/O card to the monitors to the calibration this is not a cheap endeavor. However, doesn't mean you shouldn't find workarounds and find a solution that allows you to get work done until you can step up to these higher end tools. You could look for a used JVC HD broadcast monitor. They are not great but might allow you to get by. Whatever you do just make sure that what you are looking at represents as closely as possible what the footage actually is or else you'll waste a lot of time. I know some people here have indicated just get used to the quirks of your monitor and learn how to adjust for them. In other words, if your monitor has a slight green tint to it that you can't dial out learn how that affects your footage and work around it. To me this is far from ideal but again if it lets you get work done so be it.
 
M, Peter, Steve... thanks for all of you!

I'm considering the LED TV alternative, but I have some problems with it. First, I'd like to use this external monitor as a simple workspace extender as well, like for photo editing also. Second, it's huge! It maybe won't fit my desk.... and Third, at my current location I will be facing this huge TV from a meter or so... I can't place it farther... By the way, could you give me some recommended products from Sony and Panasonic which would work well? (I have to check out their availability and pricing in my country...).

+ Do I gain anything if I go for a BMD Intensity (USB3 or Thunderbolt), or an AJA T-Tap instead of the Ultrastudio Mini?

++ How off my color correction would be if I would go with the original Dell U2413+Ultrastudio Mini option instead of the LED TV+Ultrastudio Mini option? How big the difference would be? Would it be noticable when editing HDSLR video, or it would pop out only with higher quality stuff like R3D, Alexa, etc... ? Is it a difference, or compromise, that is noticable only by the hard-core colorists, or it's so drastic that everyone stops and stares at it? :D



Steve.... I know... But I need to get a solution by july to test it for a shoot in august.... I have to get it done, and have to do it with the budget I have.... I know that there'll be some compromises, but I have to find the best fit in this budget range....
 
http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/st...10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921666519671

32" for $ 650 USD...

Be careful when you are shopping for smaller sized HDTVs, as many of them are not full 1080P (the above one is of course). Make sure that the actual panel resolution is 1920x1080. Many list specs that they are "compatible" with 1920x1080, but they actually do not have the true resolution...

:sifone: Peter
 
Gabor D. said:
+ Do I gain anything if I go for a BMD Intensity (USB3 or Thunderbolt), or an AJA T-Tap instead of the Ultrastudio Mini?
Click to expand...

You can use either. The main difference (at least for me) is the super compact size of the UMM and that it includes HD-SDI, which will allow you to connect to any broadcast / camera monitor in the future. But if HDMI is the only connection you are worried about - you can use either...


Gabor D. said:
++ How off my color correction would be if I would go with the original Dell U2413+Ultrastudio Mini option instead of the LED TV+Ultrastudio Mini option? How big the difference would be? Would it be noticable when editing HDSLR video, or it would pop out only with higher quality stuff like R3D, Alexa, etc... ? Is it a difference, or compromise, that is noticable only by the hard-core colorists, or it's so drastic that everyone stops and stares at it? :D
Click to expand...

You will be surprised how much difference does it make. And IMHO if anything, it is even more crucial for lower quality sources, such as the HDSLRs.
Even here in Japan with it high-quality standards many so called "professional" postproduction service providers do not have a properly calibrated monitors and more then half of the TVCs broadcasted on the TV has horrible looks with washed-out colors and/or unbalanced shadows / highlights or unnatural skin tones...

If you shop around you will find other manufacturer's HDTVs at the same or lower cost as the Dell. Just make sure their are proper 1920x1080 and have RGB controls in menu...

:sifone: Peter
 
Hey Peter!
Thanks! Funny, but this 32" Sony TV right now costs as much as the 40" here. :)

And is a way to connect this TV and my old Samsung Syncmaster to my MBP 13"? Then I could use the bad old Samsung as a workspace extension and the TV for color correction stuff. BTW, how well my MBP could handle this two screens?
 
Gabor D. said:
Hey Peter!
Thanks! Funny, but this 32" Sony TV right now costs as much as the 40" here. :)
Click to expand...

That 32" both in the US and here in Japan is actually more expensive then the 40". I think it is because it has few more perks, such as the built-in WiFi for connection to Internet or your smart phone...


Gabor D. said:
And is a way to connect this TV and my old Samsung Syncmaster to my MBP 13"? Then I could use the bad old Samsung as a workspace extension and the TV for color correction stuff.
Click to expand...

Yes. Simply connect the HDTV via HDMI to the BMD UMM (which connects to your MBP via one of the TB ports and then get a TB adaptor to connect the Syncmaster to the other TB port (DVI, or HDMI - not sure what the Syncmaster is using). If you are using any other TB accessories - make sure they have a pass-through TB port and connect those between the BMD UMM and the MBP...


Gabor D. said:
BTW, how well my MBP could handle this two screens?
Click to expand...

You MBP will handle both monitors just fine...

:sifone: Peter
 
Well, the problem is my MBP 13" only has one Thunderbolt port... :S
 
Then you need to buy something like this:

http://www.CalDigit.com/ThunderboltStation/

At $199 it allows you to plug the Syncmaster to the HDMI port on the HUB, while you plug the BMD UMM to the pass-through TB port on the HUB. And it gives you a bunch of other ports, which is always useful. I know it only adds to the cost, but this is the only way to use both displays with your MBP...

:sifone: Peter
 
I afraid to ask, but... any other alternative? :) I really have to cut some costs, so...
 
Gabor D. said:
I afraid to ask, but... any other alternative? :) I really have to cut some costs, so...
Click to expand...

Not that I know off...

As it is (and in your situation) - I would recommend getting the HDTV, the BMD UMM (or the Intensity), and a TB-to-HDMI adapter.
Then "shelf" the Syncmaster and only use the HDTV.
When you are grading or editing - use the HDTV via the BMD UMM as a proper video monitor...
When needing extra desktop space - use the HDTV via the TB-to-HDMI adapter...

It will get you by for the time being. Then save up for the CalDigit hub later on and start using the Syncmaster as your extra desktop and the HDMI as a permanent video monitor...

Cross fingers that someone else might chime in with another solution. But as it is - this is as much as I can help. Sorry mate...

:sifone: Peter
 
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