low-budget lighting

[paulherrin]

okay guys, the one missing piece in my kit is lighting and i'm only interested right now in super cost-effective options and even DIY projects. i already have some basic fixtures and bulbs, but they're not quite what i'd like in brightness so for my next self-financed short i'd like to use what i'd otherwise put towards renting a kino-flo for key light and find something that will get the job done for a little while. this won't even effect some of the lighting situations for this particular project and otherwise this will likely be playing a supporting role to available light.

important considerations other than cost, in order of importance, targeting the MX sensor, 320-800 ISO @ f1.4-2.8:

-brightness
-power/portability
-color variability
-quality/CRI
-durability

because of all these considerations, i'm starting to research LED lighting which i have no experience with and lots more to look into...

so, the other day i happened to be working on a little plumbing project and at the parts store i started checking out the milwaukee battery-powered light stand they had out and thought 'that could be really useful...' i've since found this and this which could each be useful, but i'm also thinking about just making my own LED panel.

when regular power isn't available, i really don't like using generators and i have a portable power pack (and can get more) that could probably last for awhile powering LEDs, but i also like the idea of using interchangeable batteries, especially ones that will work for my tools. i would prefer adjustable color or daylight balanced. i do not want to worry about anything catching on fire or melting/burning anything/one. obviously i don't want it to break and having any kind of water resistance or proofing would be good. dimmability, including third party options would also be good. i certainly don't want anything terrible as far as quality of light, but i also have no problem doing color correction and always plan for extensive post anyways.

i'd also be interested in something separate to use for non-gel quick color like a variable color bulb, definitely that doesn't require wifi hubs or anything and preferably that just has a dial on it and it would have to be pretty cheap or i'm just going to use gels.

so what is your experience with LED's (or other cheap alternatives) these days (and diffusing them) in production and post?
what would you recommend if i don't want to spend more than ~$300 on a single light source?

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

I would avoid worklights. If you really want cheap lights there are plenty of nice leds made for video for around $100. Some of those ones you linked are only 20w lights. If they aren't made for video they may not be dimmable (or have incompatible pwm dimming frequencies) and may have very problematic color spikes. Not to mention not working easily with industry standard battery and rigging.

Right now the cheap lights I like are travor Fl-3030a lights which you can get for a bit $100 and can be clamped/taped anywhere or put on stands. If you want something a bit bigger there are the falconeyes rx-29tdx which are nice 4x4 kino replacement lite mats for around $250.

 

[Nick Gardner]

Source 4 pars are about the punchiest cheapest light you can get. Look around ebay, you should be able to find them for under $100. with a 750w bulb, they can punch out some serious photons.

Nick

 

[paulherrin]

thanks guys, i would assume the same thing about worklights but the milwaukee is supposedly high quality lighting, 85 CRI at 4000k and i might be okay with that, but i'm not sure if it's as bright as i'd like so i may see if someone will let me do some quick tests to include color. that other one is likely bright enough and i think it is 80 CRI at 5000k, but i'm not sure about dimmability or if it will be the quality i need and i'd have to use my own battery pack that i'd rather use for other things, so i may contact the company or try to find one nearby to test as well. if those don't work out in testing i may just construct my own high quality LED panel that meets my spec and will probably come in way under budget - i'm not sure i'm too impressed with the cheap offerings compared to the DIY cost and while i like the idea of flexible LEDs i'm just not sure i actually need those, either... thanks again though, i'll think about it.

thanks for reminding me about the source 4s nick, i remember seriously considering them years ago and just never jumped on them. if i end up deciding against the LED route altogether that's probably what i'll choose. any suggestions for light stands? it would be nice to have at least 8ft and i don't imagine i would need to go any higher than 12. i guess i'd need a few sandbags as well...

if i do some testing or a DIY project on LEDs i'll definitely report back on that.
if anyone has suggestions for high quality and/or cost effective led component sourcing please let me know.

 

[Matt W.]

I'm actually trying to get rid of something that might be what you're looking for. I have two of these with V Mount to Sony battery adapters:

http://cheesycam.com/72-super-spot-beam-led-video-light-panel/

I just don't have room in my apartment for them. They're not bad. As bright or brighter than most 1x1 panels I've used, but the CRI is a little rough... in the 85-90 range I think (IMO needs 1/8 minus green just looking by eye)? The ones I have are 50 degree beams and they were bright enough to be useful for some day exteriors, and certainly in the shade, which surprised me. I'm not in love with the quality of light but it far surpasses LED work lights, etc. I also did a DIY thing putting a 40w headlight bulb inside a Fresnel, and it was super cool that I could run it off 12v batteries off Amazon, but it was unreliable. The color rendering is just not good on the work lights and such. The light I listed above I would say is useable, but the newer legit film stuff is just so much better and doesn't need correction. This light feels a bit oily on skin, but so did first-gem mach techs and lite panels, though somewhat less so.

That said, a gaffer I know would use these:

https://www.amazon.com/Outdoor-Halo...1511668718&sr=8-2&keywords=50w+led+work+light

He claims you can re-wire it to take AA batteries in series I think? He would know, but I never understood how so can't help you there. The color is really bad but it works for an "industrial" look, like street lights or something when you gel them it's great. Pretty nice for the money but not so nice on skin. Pretty bright!

In the "punch for the money" category, this is an actual legit 575w HMI with an electronic ballast:

https://www.usedlighting.com/14612/tmb-power-par-hmi-575w

Only issues are, unless you're okay with the bad included bulb that has poor color rendering, you need a weird bulb that's a bit rare to track down (it's $100 and is the same as a "real" 575w HMI bulb–90 CRI and everything–but it has a different base and is not hot restrike), and above about 100º F it won't turn on... Oh yeah and use a lens or risk a bad sunburn. You can put this inside a Leko, too, if you buy a 400w bulb and feel like risking your life. I actually made a fully functioning Joleko like this... well... fully functioning but not structurally safe lol.

I also put a $25 400w 90CRI mogul base HID inside a mogul base soft box and wired an aquarium ballast in line and it's effectively a legit 400w HMI soft box, no real compromise except terrible build quality and no hot restrike and the ballast is a little noisy (so are jokers, so whatever). Cost next to nothing, maybe $200 for everything.

But good luck powering any of that on a battery.... I mostly quit shooting but if I were to design a kit from scratch today and had a bigger budget I'd go with legit LED lights and V Mount batteries. 'Buy once cry once" applies, imo. The higher end stuff these days is really nice... and even the medium end stuff (Dracast, Aputure, etc.) has pretty good color rendering imo and can usually be battery-powered...

 

[paulherrin]

thanks for the tips, could be useful...

i may test some of this other stuff still, but i just bought a dimmable 95 CRI philips 4000k LED to try out for now @ $20, plus i got some even brighter philips incandescents that are 100 CRI for just a few bucks... this will allow me to use my existing gear, and with the LED i should be able to run those off my power pack when necessary or could probably rig something up for lightweight battery power. i'll report back.

 

[Matt W.]

I personally never got far with that kind of thing because shaping the light became so difficult, but the Philips LEDs do have good color rendering, so you might pull it off. I have some in my apartment in the light fixtures and there's a slight green tint but it's quite a bit better than the fluorescent lights they replaced. There are circumstances where I would definitely use something like that in film, too, and I do intend to use Philips LEDs as practicals.

If you're okay with incandescents, the sky is the limit for not a lot of money. Photofloods are bright and 4800K balanced (if a touch green) so that's an option for the Red, which renders colors much better around 5000K than it does with incandescent lights. So even though all incandescents are 100 CRI, unless you're okay gelling them blue (effectively reducing their efficiency to about 1/12th that of LEDS) the color rendering is not superior in my experience, at least on Red. (Superior on film, yes.)

The 12v LEDs and battery packs on Amazon are actually pretty good, around 85-90 CRI for some of them and very bright and dirt cheap. Just a lot of work to set up. There are some youtube videos explaining how to wire them into light mats, but you might as well buy a light mat for the time saved. For little tiny lights for custom purposes (something to put in a fridge or tape off-camera) they are awesome, though.

Other than that kind of stuff, I'm getting out of the DIY hobby for reasons I think I make clear. I think it's a waste of money, to be honest. But if you're interested in any of the stuff I mentioned above I'd probably let it go for not much more than the cost of shipping. I have a 40w 6000K car headlight that wires easily into a 12v LiON pack that I'd just let go for free, or I even put one in a Fresnel that I am trying to get rid of.

I don't have room in my apartment for this stuff anymore and I was going to give it to a friend, but he just bought some LED panels off Amazon, which is what I'd recommend.

My recommendation would be to get the real thing. I put together some really great DIY stuff and even used it in a few shoots, and there were a few scenarios where I was able to build a Joleko or something for $400 and it was exactly the light I needed, but every time there was an unexpected consequence on set. An HMI par that worked great except in 100+ degree weather; a lack of UV protection; a clunky unbalanced light that didn't fit on the stand, etc.

I think you need to decide if your hobby is shooting or building lights. If it's shooting, just buy this:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1277175-REG/dracast_drsl_r_400b_silk_400_smd_led.html?sts=pi ($99!) and some Sony batteries on Amazon

Or this:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...6072591191327&utm_id=5948128ab5fbbc4c1e3bb053

Building custom rigs is a worthwhile pursuit. There are specific lighting ideas I have that would require a DIY approach and maybe create something awesome and original. For instance, making a l'Enfer rig that's battery-powered with LED bulbs so as to avoid having to use a pancake slip ring. Taking that car headlight I mentioned and putting it in a weather balloon for an A7S-specific (40w rather than 1200w)* balloon light for night exteriors, or just taping LEDs around a weather balloon like that for a few hundred bucks.

But if you're smart enough to build this stuff, your time is worth more than the money you'll save. Unless you real hobby is building stuff, just get the real thing. The cheap stuff (Dracast, etc.) is shockingly good. Take it from someone who made the same mistake.

*Don't laugh. That's only a five-stop difference. If we assume a 500 ISO base for film, that puts us at 16,000 ISO, effortless for an A7S.

 

[H Dewey]

I bought the Mastergrip Twin 3000 lum led tripod because it has barn doors to shape the light.

 

[Bob Gundu]

Hard to beat the kinoflo for bag for buck. So many can be found used. Consistent light and fairly compact. Heck even the knock offs are decent. Divas are still a great interview light too.

 

[Matt W.]

Hard to beat the kinoflo for bag for buck. So many can be found used. Consistent light and fairly compact. Heck even the knock offs are decent. Divas are still a great interview light too.

I only sort of agree. While the used market value has plummeted and they're great lights, they're difficult to power off DC, expensive to upgrade to quality LEDs (quasars, etc.), and only the diva is small and convenient to use. For studio use, sure, but for location lights I'd take LEDs any day. The Diva also has a major hue shift when dimmed, and none of them have the punch or throw that LEDs do.

That said, I'd still choose these over any of the DIY options. And the price is right for the quality of light, unless you need them shipped. But I wouldn't use them without a crew, too heavy and unwieldy except the Diva, which I never liked.

I'd take that second $109 Dracast over a Diva, as much as it shocks me to admit it. These things have gotten shockingly good.

 

[Troy Dunn-Higgins]

Not to mention the fact that Kino Flo's 55W True Match tubes have a color temperature of approximately 6500K-6900K, despite their 5500K rating. They can be less than convenient to mix with other artificial daylight sources.

 

[Matt W.]

Not to mention the fact that Kino Flo's 55W True Match tubes have a color temperature of approximately 6500K-6900K, despite their 5500K rating. They can be less than convenient to mix with other artificial daylight sources.

Didn't know that but I'd believe it! I always found the 3200K Kinos to look more like 3400K, but I still think that's because real tungsten lights are usually around 2900K. I will give Kinos credit for looking pretty good on skin; I know Matty Libatique loves them but some DPs I know only want to work with tungsten.

To be blunt, this is your answer (if it's still on sale for $109):

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...6072591191327&utm_id=5948128ab5fbbc4c1e3bb053

Add a stand.

Add two off brand Sony batteries and a charger for $50 on Amazon.

It's not insanely bright (smaller than it looks) but that's the only problem and can be fixed by buying two of them.

Two of those, some batteries, and an Aputure 120d would be a great location kit!

 

[Björn Benckert]

I actually got a huge amount of those blue lamps you refere to from a hardware commercial I worked on also then got tons of these:

https://m.clasohlson.com/se/Arbetslampa-Cocraft-LXC-WL18-2/40-8640

And must say, chargers batteries and lamps worked a lot better and had better build qualities than most similar cheap lights built for the film industry that I used. The only problem is the actual light shining from them. they are simply not providing a full or even spectrum of light, Instead they give a jagged and incomplete specrum which will render poor color resolution to your images, Simply your footage will lack in nuances.

Best / the most simple way to check is to bring a CD to the store and shine the lamp at it (not the lable side) then you will see a clear difference between a good lamp and a bad one as the good one shows a perfect rainbow on the CD that works as a prisma and the bad led light will simply show a jagged and incomplete rainbow.

But to me any lights are better than no lights and for sure I think having 10 of those battery driven 20bucks kind of lights in the back of the truck is far better than nothing.

But I would recomend renting a few realy good leds and use the cheep lamps for such things that does not matter as much backround hard filter stuff etc.

Test the area58 led fosfor lamps and everything else just looks like shit in comparision.

 

[Ron Steinberg]

Source 4 pars are about the punchiest cheapest light you can get. Look around ebay, you should be able to find them for under $100. with a 750w bulb, they can punch out some serious photons.

Nick

This. Use real light. Cheap LED's (don't get me started on "CRI" there is no such thing for LED's they are not black body radiators") with poor CRI suck big time. If you can't afford quality LED or Kino use real tungsten halogen lights. Absolute best colour spectrum.

 

[Nick Gardner]

Re Kinos, I never liked them. I think the color is always off, they are awkward and dumb. I remember going through my lighting order with my gaffer during prep of a movie and I had no kinos on it. He was super confused. "So, you want zero Kinoflos? I don't think I've ever done a job with no kinos."

I am always trying whatever new chinese leds that come out, and I have to say, these are awesome. I have 6 of them and they kick ass. I put them right on 18x24 solids and they are great. I think they are my favorite light at the moment.

https://www.amazon.com/Falcon-Eyes-...F8&qid=1511890136&sr=8-1&keywords=falcon+eyes

Nick

 

[Nick Morrison]

Re Kinos, I never liked them. I think the color is always off, they are awkward and dumb. I remember going through my lighting order with my gaffer during prep of a movie and I had no kinos on it. He was super confused. "So, you want zero Kinoflos? I don't think I've ever done a job with no kinos."

I am always trying whatever new chinese leds that come out, and I have to say, these are awesome. I have 6 of them and they kick ass. I put them right on 18x24 solids and they are great. I think they are my favorite light at the moment.

https://www.amazon.com/Falcon-Eyes-...F8&qid=1511890136&sr=8-1&keywords=falcon+eyes

Nick

Nick have you tried Quasars? Esp the cross fades?

All the gaffers I know are obsessed with them, either in old Kino housings, or as naked bulbs strategically placed around set.

 

[Brandon Kelly]

I picked up one of the variable temp version recently of the falcon eyes. Last weeks shoot I would say it was my most used light. Being able to just tape it to the ceiling is certainly a nice option. I got them to throw in a long extension cable so I can run my power box far away from the light.

 

[Nick Gardner]

I haven't used the quasars as I'm just not a fan of the kino style fixtures. But I have head nothing but good things about them

 

[Vladimir Cazacu]

The 220v version is way overpriced though. Not worth getting Quasars in Europe.

 

[paulherrin]

just wanted to report back, guys. i did a quick single-source skintone test using tungsten, cfl, and led on the mx @320 with and without gels.

individually, all of them are fine with me and i was happy with where i could balance them in rcx with the basic controls - i have no reason to think i couldn't get really good results with any of them in the grade, especially with proper gels all around, even in mixed lighting situations which i'd still like to try out. personally, i think the LED looks slightly better than the tungsten and both were slightly better than the cfl's. i should probably update to the latest build, but i'm not sure if that will make too much of a difference. looking at different redcolors/dragoncolors there are just some that i prefer over others across the board, but different ones might be selected dependent on the situation. ymmv.

i will say that my favorite now is the philips high-CRI dimmable LED for a few reasons:

+ it is fairly close to the daylight range without gels
+ it is fairly bright and dimmable w/o significant color skew
+ it does not put off significant heat (less than the cfl's)
+ it does not draw very much power (less than the cfl's)
+ it will probably last longer than i'll need it

i'll probably get a couple more. it's generally not a light for practicals due to its shape, so i'll have to see what works best with it and also how it works to complement various available lighting situations. if anything, i may just have to get the right gels for everything to play well together in camera if i don't already have them.