Love to see Sacarlet v Epic, side-by-side

[Brant Hadfield]

Surprised I haven't seen it yet. Maybe it's eluded me. What really I'm interested in is latitude. I just saw some great looking Scarlet footage of a model in bright sunlit rooms. But, the highlight blow-outs were a bit more than I expected to see. Did not look like "13.5 stops". Thought it more like maybe 11.5 or 12. But would love to see how it really compares to Epic!

 

[Tom.Wong]

it's the same.

 

[Brant Hadfield]

it's the same.

Show me. (like they say in news. "Show, don't tell." Scarlet latitude "13.5 stops", according to Red. One stop under Alexa, one under some film stocks. Can't wait to see it. I prefer seeing the comparison, than being told. Not, of course, that I don't trust, of course!

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

James Drake is working on a blog coming soon. He worked with Wade Y. (didn't want to mis-spell) and myself with different settings, lighting and compression ratios.

 

[Lliam Worthington]

Cool jeffrey. Look forward to it. What lens is that going up against the CP2?

Best

Lliam

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

Show me. (like they say in news. "Show, don't tell." Scarlet latitude "13.5 stops", according to Red. One stop under Alexa, one under some film stocks. Can't wait to see it. I prefer seeing the comparison, than being told. Not, of course, that I don't trust, of course!

RED says its same...why dont you just believe them?

 

[paulherrin]

looks like the canon 50mm 1.4 on the scarlet

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

Cool jeffrey. Look forward to it. What lens is that going up against the CP2?

Best

Lliam

Yeah we shot awhile ago, but James has been busy traveling. I had the 50 1.4, he had the 50mm Cp2.

We even shot at the highest ISO in no light for the heck of it. Obviously they have 5K, but 4K should look the same minus the optics being slightly different. It was a great experience. I picked up some extra camera knowledge from James and Jeff at 5Kinsight. They're awesome.

 

[Brant Hadfield]

RED says its same...why dont you just believe them?

Wow, seriously? Nah. Really? Lol. Let's just say, I'm new, and my trust level is, "ramping up".

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

looks like the canon 50mm 1.4 on the scarlet

ditto

Wow, seriously? Nah. Really? Lol. Let's just say, I'm new, and my trust level is, "ramping up".

yeah really..since i have only epic cant compare it to scarlet side by side..why dont you do this test and we ll see whats the truth?

 

[Les Dittert]

Please also show a DSLR Raw capture processed as a still, using the same lens as was used on a Red ( Canon ).
This is a reference point that all still photographers are very familiar with, for range and image quality, ISO grain, etc.
I think it's time, and I have a strong suspicion that the results will be educational

-Les

 

[Brant Hadfield]

ditto




yeah really..since i have only epic cant compare it to scarlet side by side..why dont you do this test and we ll see whats the truth?

Kemalettin, it's not that I don't think they are the same, they may be. I have a healthy bit of skepticism when it comes to marketing claims. I prefer an independent test to the word of those who benefit from the sale. Some claims are honest, some are not. Some claims for product's capabilities can be exaggerations based on perfect or unrealistic conditions. So I would rather just see for myself.

This particular test will be helpful, but I would love a new shootout that could do a technical comparison of this chip's capabilities against the likes of Alexa, for example. Direct comparison of latitude, especially, as that is one thing that does provide a pretty evident differentiation of camera classes, pedigree - aside from raw resolution.

 

[Jason Diamond]

They are the same camera plain and simple.

The components are the same just deriving different specs based on performance of the internal components.

There is no marketing claim just technological info.

Jason

 

[Brant Hadfield]

They are the same camera plain and simple.

The components are the same just deriving different specs based on performance of the internal components.

There is no marketing claim just technological info.

Jason

I believe 13.5 stops of latitude is a marketing claim until it is independently tested and verified, and not simply a measurement of the camera's dimensions or weight.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

Find epic footage shot in 4k 24fps or take 5k footage and crop it to 4k or decimate the frames to 12fps, then you basically have scarlet footage.

If you saw footage that looked blown out then there are a number of reasons that footage could have looked like that. It's hard to judge latitude from footage if you dont know anything about the shooting conditions. If it was really bright outside and they exposed for inside it could easily have blown out quite badly, and unless you know how many stops brighter it was outside, blown out windows don't tell you much. If they shot at a low ISO for some reason or graded or used a gamma curve that blew out highlights more, that could also have had a significant effect.

 

[Björn Benckert]

I read somewhere here that you can use the scarlet for your second eye with an epic when shooting stereo... if both are set to 4k and limited to scarlet specs. So then yes they must be the same or result would be very poor..

 

[Brant Hadfield]

Find epic footage shot in 4k 24fps or take 5k footage and crop it to 4k or decimate the frames to 12fps, then you basically have scarlet footage.

If you saw footage that looked blown out then there are a number of reasons that footage could have looked like that. It's hard to judge latitude from footage if you dont know anything about the shooting conditions. If it was really bright outside and they exposed for inside it could easily have blown out quite badly, and unless you know how many stops brighter it was outside, blown out windows don't tell you much. If they shot at a low ISO for some reason or graded or used a gamma curve that blew out highlights more, that could also have had a significant effect.

YES! Totally agree, which is why I would love to see tests. Which is why Zacuto went to the enormous trouble and expense of doing tests like this:

http://www.zacuto.com/the-great-camera-shootout-2011/episode-one

Instead of just publishing technical data.

And the Scarlet footage that really interests me, which is really beautiful by the way is this:

http://vimeo.com/35500353

Particularly interesting is the shot at 29 seconds. Rather similar to one of the test shots Zacuto did 2011, maybe episode 1, maybe 2, don't remember now. The latitude testing. Really interesting tests.

 

[Stefan Antonescu]

For the Scarlet, if you shoot at the same fps/resolution/redcode the image looks the same as if you'd shot on Epic, for which there is footage available and finished movies for you to view. That is the appeal of the Scarlet, for within the hardware fps/resolution/redcode constraints the camera may say Scarlet, but the image is 100% Epic.

Graeme

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?67129-1st-Scarlet&p=875851&viewfull=1#post875851

When shooting 4K at 24 or 25 fps with the same Redcode, there is NO difference. You get the EXACTLY same image.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

And the Scarlet footage that really interests me, which is really beautiful by the way is this:

http://vimeo.com/35500353

Particularly interesting is the shot at 29 seconds. Rather similar to one of the test shots Zacuto did 2011, maybe episode 1, maybe 2, don't remember now. The latitude testing. Really interesting tests.

I would be careful using images taken at completely different times and in completely different environments to draw any conclusions or comparisons between different cameras. Though it probably isnt worth reading into much, I will note that those windows held what appeared to be significantly better in those Scarlet shots than they did in the BTS footage which was presumably shot on a canon DSLR.

I also noticed a lot of magenta highlights in that footage. This is a problem that seems to plague all RED cameras but is at least easily fixable in RC-X. I'm surprised how much graded footage I see out of RED cameras where they never fixed the magenta highlight problem.

 

[Brant Hadfield]

I would be careful using images taken at completely different times and in completely different environments to draw any conclusions or comparisons between different cameras. Though it probably isnt worth reading into much, I will note that those windows held what appeared to be significantly better in those Scarlet shots than they did in the BTS footage which was presumably shot on a canon DSLR.

I also noticed a lot of magenta highlights in that footage. This is a problem that seems to plague all RED cameras but is at least easily fixable in RC-X. I'm surprised how much graded footage I see out of RED cameras where they never fixed the magenta highlight problem.

Guys, I'm trying to be objective. I'm on the wait list. This is a very good camera. I want to know, objectively, what it can do. I'm not reading anything into anything. I would love to know, in a comparative and carefully controlled way, how the Epic/Scarlet compares to competitors, specifically in latitude. And I want to see for my own eyes, and not by faith, that there weren't certain places of cost reduction in Scarlet that could translate to image, other than what we know about process speed. This is a complicated piece of equipment. Asking questions doesn't mean criticism. It's healthy skepticism. Show me, don't tell me.