Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Looking for advice on getting into the world of cinematography

brett ogden

brett ogden

REDuser Sponsor
Joined
Nov 22, 2011
Messages
892
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
USA
Hello my name is Brett Ogden I have been on reduser since last November, and I'd like to thank you all for the knowledge you have shared it has helped me a lot to understand the RED camera system. Since I've been a member Reduser I decided I would like to pursue a career in cinematography :-) So today I'd like to ask you how you got into cinematography and if you guys would share your stories on how you got into cinematography??? And if you guys had any tips and/or tricks on how to become A Cinematographer.


Thanks for your time


Brett ogden
 
Last edited:
This is a very long answer Brett, yet a short one is the one I'll give you now... ;)

I followed my dream since childhood, and paid dearly the consequences thru life, left everything I ever knew and loved to go to America and pursue such a dream,
done so past medical issues of major proportions, and stil batling them today, yet I stand the happiest man alive, as I am leaving my dream.

Pursue your dreams, no matter what, PERSEVERE no matter to that end, and you will never look back!!


The longer answer will have to wait till I post it on my blogs, once our site gets revamped out of the New MASSIVE Server, but now I'm on a trip to NY and Brazil... ;)
 
Thank you so much for your story it means a lot for a little guy like me to have someone take the time out of their day to post.


Brett Ogden
 
Last edited:
Work at a camera rental house, work as a PA, get on set any way you can.

Pick up camera and shoot, shoot some more and shoot again.

Networking, self-teaching, persistence, and tenacity.

Offer a helping hand to people you want to emulate.

Good luck!
 
Thanks for the kind words Jack right now I'm trying to get contacts,network and get my foot in the door.


Brett Ogden
 
Was an artist, shot some video art, got hired for a music video, producer asked if I was available a couple days later, been there ever since.
 
Some of the things that I live by and have helped me are:

The answer is no 100% of the time you don't ask.

I wouldn't have an EPIC right now. I wouldn't be in Dubai right now. The list can go on if I didn't ask some pretty crazy questions knowing that the least would happen to me is be told "No".
​


Don't be afraid of failure.

More times than not, it seems when I try some something new, success comes. When failure happens, I still learn new ways to not do something (learning what is "wrong" almost always teaches you how to get closer to "right"). "Trying" is a win-win situation.

​
Strive to surround yourself with the best...and if possible, try to emulate what the successful people are doing

Hanging out with only people on your level will not push yourself very quickly to a higher excellence which we should all be working towards. Growing up, I have not been the best person at explaining stuff out loud to people...but it's something I like and want to do more. What I have done to get over this is by listening intently to how people like Ted Schilowitz make their speeches. Observing what the best do can only make you better. I have been very fortunate to become great friends with a lot of the RED Team, and this I believe has a lot to do with why I am where I am now.
​


Perhaps the advice above is not necessarily the best advice for "cinematography" per se, but it has definitely shaped who I am as a person and has directly influenced my little bit of success in everything (including cinematography).
 
Honestly Joseph, your response is universal to any industry or endeavor. The need to grow, people skills and honing the craft.

Great post, my friend.
 
I think youtube shorts are a great way to get your feet wet, do TONS of shorts - great thing on youtube is it forces you to tell a Story in your Shots ... otherwise you won't get hits. I kind of think of youtube shorts (i.e. under 2 minute films) as what we use to do with small super 8 reels, but it's way better. Also you don't feel like you need uber equipement for youtube's, so allows you experiment while slowly upgrading your equipment. I BTW think studying computer science, robotics and physics are great backgrounds for modern film makers, as well as painting. The main thing is just to shoot a lot ... i mean like thousands of hours.
 
I agree pretty much 100% with what others have said. One thing I would strongly recommend is work on your photography and cinematography in general. Seems obvious, but push yourself very hard to get better and produce quality imagery. The better you get the odds are when you're in the right situation others will be able to trust you with their project if they can feel confident in your abilities. I got my first motion picture work because somebody said "Phil is good with a camera". Literally. Exact words.

Studying art is something I feel is mandatory, but others may feel differently. There's a lot more to composition than the "rule of thirds". Focus on composition, color theory, and storytelling. If a painter can tell an entire story in a single frame, there might be a lot to learn from that.

Be accepting to critique and comments. Especially if you can receive it from your peers. I have several individuals I would consider mentors in my life and my career. Their guidance and advice helped push me along. Extremely valuable if you can find individuals willing to invest that time in you.

If you have the opportunity, when working on set and under others with more experience I would recommend watching and listening like a hawk. That's been about the most useful thing I ever did. I learned a lot from working on features in other capacities and studying what other cinematographers and directors were doing to get the work done. No better way to learn in my opinion.
 
What exactly do you want to do? Tell a story, capture nice images, be the 1000-armed octopus coordinating a set, or solve new problems everyday? There are so many things that need to be done on a real set and most people are not even aware of all the different positions. So what is it you want to do?
Since you got an Epic, it seems you like the camera operation part?
Then take your camera and start shooting. Shoot, shoot and shoot some more.
Offer your services to indies and no- to low budget productions, to youth-groups, students and anybody who might need it, because experience is what will get you the cool gigs later.
Go and grab the 100 best movies and start watching them and watch them again. Look at the techniques, the light, the positions, compositions etc.
Grab friends and family and start making movies. With or without script, with or without budget, it does not matter, as long as you shoot.

And get your movie makers glasses on.
I personally walk through life with several filters. When I look at people, sceneries and places (which we all do most of the day), I try to see stories, light, possible shots, etc. Not a moment goes by, when presented with a new image that my mind is not checking for possibilities on how, what, who and why something could, or could not end up in a movie.

Be bold! You need to be a little bit crazy to do this for a living and the unexpected is expected everyday.
Be eager to learn and to share what you have learned.
And don't forget: SHOOT!




The truth is that movies are just a mere hundred years old. It is such a young art-form that talking about rules seems weird. But it is one of the most prolific art-forms too. After all, it tell stories on so many levels that it can substitute for a book - even if people don't like to accept that. So there had been a great deal of trial and error in this field and if you look at professional grip equipment, it will become very clear that almost everything that is standard in the industry today, at one point was made up on the spot by movie makers.
I usually feel like the big problem solver, the great set magician (which is more true the less budget you have). And the reason is, because we are still learning, we are still developing. We do not stop at the end of a canvas, we do not see this art-form coming to a hold anytime soon. We are all little kids telling a story and learning how to, while we do it (which is why set-experience is so crucial).
The rest comes - at least for me - rather naturally. Yes, occasionally I think about the rule of thirds, the 180º, eye lines etc. But I find that I do it automatically even. Because it is how we look at the world through lenses and screens. It is how I see the world through my movie eyes anyhow.


BUT - and I feel I have to include this, because it is also a truth many don't want to realize - only a fraction of the people who try this art-form (or any other) really have a talent.
First off, most humans have NO sense for art whatsoever. Yes, they can enjoy the beauty of a pretty image, but let me tell you, that they would not know the artistic difference between a cheap scenery painting on the wall of a family restaurant and that of a Thomas Coleman, Paul Bril, Canaletto, Joseph M. W. Turner, or even Monet (BTW a good lesson to go out and check out the works great artists on how they composited, used colors and lights etc.). For most of those consuming art, it might seem to be about the same level of skill and talent. It doesn't mean they don't appreciate the great works, it just means they do not really understand the differences. For most people, there is no more obvious art involved in movies like The Third Man, Vertigo, or Blade Runner than in Transformers 3. This is why the mass market is not dominated by artistically great movies, even if some end up there nonetheless.
And to tell you the truth, I look for very different forms of appreciation with various audiences. The masses I want to entertain, colleagues and people who understand the craft in it, I want approval from; and to the suits, I want to seem commercially useful.

Then there is this group of people who believe they have talent and who think they can actually create, but they can't. They are often proud to show you the worst things you have ever seen and the reason they keep doing it is because nobody has either the knowledge or the heart to tell them the truth. In this forum, you will probably find a higher % of capable people then in many other places, but even here, probably only a handful is really talented to the point that they could make really great movies. And I don't try to be mean, just honest.
Should you be one of those people, who lack the real talent, don't worry, because it does not mean at all that you can't work in this business. Even if you lack the real golden talent, you can still be great in what you do, just by having a great set of skills. Just learn to see what art is, see what skill is and how they fit together and find your own place in this machinery - and be a patron to those with great visions, be their wingman.

Not everyone can be a director, even if it often seems like it (I hate it if people tell me it's what they want to do, as if they know what it really incorporates). There are only a few really great ones, a ton of mediocre ones and most of both these groups have a great team behind them. A director with a lousy DP will not make good cinema, a great DP with a lousy Director will make nice images nobody wants to see. and if the story is shit, it usually does not matter how good a director or DP is, the movie will not be good - which does not mean it won't sell though, as movies show us over and over again...
There are many spots on a film team and being great in any one of them can make you just as essential a part as DP, Director or any other.


...what a rant, sorry about that :)


So in short:
Find out what you are really good at and what you want to do and just go out and do it and NEVER let anybody tell you it can not be done!
 
Last edited:
Thanks Patrick

You got me thanking about it and i thank i want to be a Epic shooter/DP

Thanks for being honest

Brett Ogden
 
brett, as great as being a RED shooter, it has nothing to do with being a DP.

Learn to light man. it will put you ahead of everyone else. good lighting takes your work so many levels up.

The best way to learn is to start reading about it, working with it on set, bribing ;) DP's/gaffers/key grips/electricians/grips, whatever, to work for free, learn the biz...it's a baller way to learn man. One of the best things I ever heard an ASC member say was that "There isn't a moment in life where you can't learn about light" - Karl Walter Lindenlaub, ASC/BVK

I run a "lighting" blog over at gaffersunite.com you can learn some there...
 
Peter Mosiman said:
Learn to light man. it will put you ahead of everyone else. good lighting takes your work so many levels up.
Click to expand...
+10
this truly sets a great cinematographer apart from a simple camera operator.

a good exercise is to get great movies and pick a scene and then try to light it to match. If you don't have the light, this is something to invest in, especially if you go the indie route. a DP with his own cam and his own light is gold worth in the indie, low- and no-budget world.
if you haven't got the money to buy sets of lights (there are good and affordable sets out there), make a hobby out of the exercise above and do it once a month with rented lights - get some friends to sit in, rent a few lights and then make some tests over the weekend.

It is not the camera, it is the light that makes the image. literally!
 
no offense to anyone on these forums.. but head over to roger deakins forums.. or cinematography.com

you'll be talking with dudes that have shot legit movies and are versed in all kinds of mediums..

reduser is cool.. but seems to be mostly RED centric and tech city USA vs the art of cinematography.. nothing wrong with this.. but I'm just giving my advise as to where to go to learn and read and shit.

lots of people getting in depth of different types of lighting scenarios, lens choice, camera choice, blocking.. so on

Deakins is super cool because he will answer your questions..
Mullen is way cool too, because he does this here.. he's also pretty big over in cinematography..

just broaden your web horizons and also.. CINEMATOGRAPHY.. subscribe.. its a pretty awesome magazine and its filled with tons of information.

and lastly.. go shoot. its hard to find something to shoot.. but even if your just testing different ways to light a scene, or anything like that.. its the best way to learn.. develop your own skills
 
Zakaree Sandberg said:
no offense to anyone on these forums.. but head over to roger deakins forums.. or cinematography.com

you'll be talking with dudes that have shot legit movies and are versed in all kinds of mediums..

reduser is cool.. but seems to be mostly RED centric and tech city USA vs the art of cinematography.. nothing wrong with this.. but I'm just giving my advise as to where to go to learn and read and shit.

lots of people getting in depth of different types of lighting scenarios, lens choice, camera choice, blocking.. so on

Deakins is super cool because he will answer your questions..
Mullen is way cool too, because he does this here.. he's also pretty big over in cinematography..

just broaden your web horizons and also.. CINEMATOGRAPHY.. subscribe.. its a pretty awesome magazine and its filled with tons of information.

and lastly.. go shoot. its hard to find something to shoot.. but even if your just testing different ways to light a scene, or anything like that.. its the best way to learn.. develop your own skills
Click to expand...

+1 !!
 
take a reducation course to get the credentials to work as a DIT on some set (or a film degree in addition to this)...or buy a red and just go hunt jobs on CL, even free ones, just to shoot. keep in mind costs will add up if you need to cut and shoot your stuff, NLE, hardware, storage. its a lot cheaper to get a DSLR workflow in place then a 4k one...

personally i took the first route, no money for the second route, i am on set right now, avids open, along with 10 scripts...should really get off this site...lol
 
Learn to light, Study art/artists that move you, become aware of composition, and work as much as you can and then some. There are so many good books that you can rent from the library or buy that contain a wealth of knowledge. I would honestly read as many as you can get your hands on. Oh and try to shoot on some film before it is gone completely, it is important to know and understand despite what some folks may tell you.
 
There are a number of things you can do to start learning about cinematography. For starters, start reading. Some libraries have some good books on cinematography and you can learn a great deal about lighting and composition. Second, get yourself a subscription to the ASC magazine. If it's out of your price range than read the online back issue articles: http://www.theasc.com/ac_magazine/archive.php

There are a number of good forums like this site plus DVXuser and Roger Deakin's forum.

Watch a ton of movies and be sure to watch the behind the scenes clips to see how some of the scenes were lit.

Other than that, practice practice practice. Get yourself a cheap DSLR (GH2 is my personal recommendation) and by some used nikon primes lenses. I would also build up a set of cheap DIY lighting devices like china balls and there are plenty of online tutorials on how to light you videos on the cheap but still have it look professional.

I am kinda in the same boat you are in so I don't have a ton of advice on actually getting a job in the field of cinematography but you could try to get a job at at rental house to get some exposure to high end equip. Try to get a job on set and work your way up the ladder, shooting music videos and short films in your free time. Finally, see if film school is an option. Its not cheap and not that easy to get into if it is one of the top schools but you will learn most of what you need to know and you will establish working relationships that will allow you to get work after you graduate. I wish you the best of luck.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top