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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Log Grading

So, it is a no brainer that mapping the the missing trackball to the un-used 4th ball in the Element panels will solve this issue... Any particular issue why this cannot be done for V9.0.1? Take it as rhetorical/sarcastic or as naive question, but my question is valid anyway.


PS: Jake, thanks for you explanation. The best I have found and understand the best so far.
 
Luis Otero said:
So, it is a no brainer that mapping the the missing trackball to the un-used 4th ball in the Element panels will solve this issue... Any particular issue why this cannot be done for V9.0.1? Take it as rhetorical/sarcastic or as naive question, but my question is valid anyway.


PS: Jake, thanks for you explanation. The best I have found and understand the best so far.
Click to expand...
Frankly, there is no reason, why Log grading couldn't be correctly mapped out on ANY panel. All other grading panels, including Lustre (CP-100), FilmMaster or Baselight all use three trackballs. There is no need to re-invent the wheel. They all use right trackball for Contrast, center for Brightness/ Exposure and the left is assignable to H/M/L.
It is clearly a marketing decision by BM and as such, I don't ever see the re-mapping thing happening...
Anyone, that had used Log grading on daily basis understands what a HUGE deal this feature is and what a HUGE disappointment this marketing decision by BM to, pretty much, rendering Log grading utterly useless.
 
jake blackstone said:
Frankly, there is no reason, why Log grading couldn't be correctly mapped out on ANY panel. All other grading panels, including Lustre (CP-100), FilmMaster or Baselight all use three trackballs. There is no need to re-invent the wheel. They all use right trackball for Contrast, center for Brightness/ Exposure and the left is assignable to H/M/L.
It is clearly a marketing decision by BM and as such, I don't ever see the re-mapping thing happening...
Click to expand...


On Baselight, those are the defaults, but anything can be mapped to anything. The first thing I did was change the trackball assignments for Film Grade to Exposure on the right trackball, Contrast on the middle one, and Shadows on the left. Also on Baselight, the film grade is simply a strip and can be combined in the same layer or the same shot with a Video Grade (lift, gamma, gain). On Lustre, the selection of log grading vs. video grading is project based, so you must decide on one set of controls for the entire project. Resolve's implementation is much more like Baselight than it is like Lustre (although the YRGB vs. ACES processing selection is much like Lustre's project setting for controls......).
 
M Most said:
On Baselight, those are the defaults, but anything can be mapped to anything. The first thing I did was change the trackball assignments for Film Grade to Exposure on the right trackball, Contrast on the middle one, and Shadows on the left. Also on Baselight, the film grade is simply a strip and can be combined in the same layer or the same shot with a Video Grade (lift, gamma, gain). On Lustre, the selection of log grading vs. video grading is project based, so you must decide on one set of controls for the entire project. Resolve's implementation is much more like Baselight than it is like Lustre (although the YRGB vs. ACES processing selection is much like Lustre's project setting for controls......).
Click to expand...
A couple of years ago, Log grading in Lustre weren't even exposed, if the project was set as a Linear type. It would only appear, when Log project wold be selected. It had been changed around 2008 or so. Now, Log grading is available regardless of the project type selected. Swapping Exposure with Contrast control is simply a reflection of a personal taste, which Baselight allows in spades. The button line, Resolve is the only software, that I had operated, that's using four trackballs for color grading.
Should BM take this extra trackballs philosophy to it's logical conclusion, then it begs the question, why isn't there 5 trackballs on a panel? It then would be an excellent opportunity to exclude even more features for non users of the BM panel:-)
 
Edited since the discussion was picked up. My mistake...
 
Luis, good thread!
 
Thanks, Elsie. I would love to have enough discussion about this topic so I will try to compile it in a pictorial way in order to share it with this community as a draft. So, whomever that wants to contribute can add/subtract information to modify it so everyone will benefit from it.

I am personally very visual (what a strange thing for a filmaker...), and frankly I do not like very much the limited graphs the Resolve User Manual has on this area, specially being a new area introduced. The manual substantially increased in volume from the last version, but it kind of assumes that any reader already knows and masters a lot of other subjects when presenting a topic. For me, a user manual should be presented in the less technical possible way. As the saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words... (or something like that). English is not my native language.

Cheers!


PS: I really love the new Resolve GUI. I feel it was updated from the 80's to this millennium. I still hope BMD will consider to make it as moldeable as possible, and not limited to only 1 monitor.
 
Anybody else may want to share their knowledge and experience in regards of this topic (LOG grading)?

Many thanks!
 
I love it! I use the BMD Control Panel so I find it gives you really precise control over the image.

For example using the Lift control on a certain shot was causing the black to clump together so swapping to LOG mode allowed me to tweek the low range to just darken down the very darkest areas and keep a cleaner picture. I think I need a little more practice with the new toolset but I'm loving it so far!

D
 
Hmmm.... I am loving what I am seeing when I am using this feature...!!! :yikes: V9, beta 3: can we get the Element's 4th trackball to control the "Offset", please Rohit and Peter?
 
jake blackstone said:
It is always a good idea to use metadata ISO/FLUT, when there is a severe discrepancy, like over and under exposure. You will get better results using those controls, rather than, something like Log Exposure/Brightness or Highlight control inside Resolve. Otherwise, the terminology might sound similar, except it's not:-)
Click to expand...

Jake, I agree going to meta ISO first is best.. but how do you decide the trade-off between adjusting FLUT instead of ISO in the meta ?
 
flut and iso are the same - flut just gives you more detailed control over the adjustment. no reason to stay locked down to film stocks when we're not using them. typically, i'll dial in the iso as a major adjustment while watching the histogram (and the image) - then dial in with the flut.
 
Yousuf Abbasi said:
Jake, I agree going to meta ISO first is best.. but how do you decide the trade-off between adjusting FLUT instead of ISO in the meta ?
Click to expand...

There is another thread on RU about the RED perception. This question of FLUT vs ISO is a perfect example of the confusion Red had created with the introduction of FLUT. Many people are still confused about the difference. Since then, on numerous occasions Red explained the difference, but the damage had been done- the question still persists. Heck, even Blackmagic in Resolve user manual still uses wrong terminology. That's why Red needs to work extra hard now in overcoming those early missteps. And that is why I proposed, that Red should consider an on-line knowledge based Wikipedia-like publication.
 
Graeme Nattress said:
Exposure can force clipping. FLUT and ISO gently bend the tones in the image to avoid clipping. A FLUT of +1 is the same as doubling ISO, but with FLUT you have a nice fine control over the over-all image brightness.

Graeme
Click to expand...

i agree, jake - a wiki would be awesome. the forums are great, but it's HUGE now and these types of questions are too frequent - and adding to the noise. a wiki would be an incredible resource for this community, especially new users - and it would free up and declutter the forums at least a bit. can't anyone start an open-source wiki? there are plenty of people here that could be awesome contributors - and i'm sure there's some videos hanging around that would be good supplements as well.

i for one would be very willing to contribute and then let the masters edit towards perfection. what say we start a thread to see who wants to handle the webwork and who wants to start writing what - or if red wants to take ownership, great.
 
paulherrin said:
flut and iso are the same - flut just gives you more detailed control over the adjustment. no reason to stay locked down to film stocks when we're not using them. typically, i'll dial in the iso as a major adjustment while watching the histogram (and the image) - then dial in with the flut.
Click to expand...

Right, generally I've only dialed the ISO as needed, and went to FLUT next, without knowing they were "exactly" the same thing.

In that case, do you ever adjust the "exposure" setting in RCX ? Seems pointless.
 
nope, i go straight to curves. i usually don't adjust much more than that in rcx - maybe saturation. that's about it...

oh, and white balance - first things first.
 
What is the effect of ISO/FLUTE adjustment on LOG grading? Sorry, just trying to bring the discussion of LOG grading back to the thread....:blush2:
 
luis, are you wanting to talk more about log grading control - not much more to talk about - or are you wanting to talk about grading, say, redlogfilm material as opposed to redgamma - or cineon opposed to rec709?
 
paulherrin said:
luis, are you wanting to talk more about log grading control - not much more to talk about - or are you wanting to talk about grading, say, redlogfilm material as opposed to redgamma - or cineon opposed to rec709?
Click to expand...

Paul,

I want to have an open talk about the theory and practicality of a new Resolve feature called LOG grading. I differ from your opinion about the fact there is not much to talk about it. I do not want to talk about color spaces, and their limitation or possibilities of grading within them; there are other threads that are available now to do so.

And let me explain why: I am a practical person, and like many colorists, learn by trial-and-error. As I said before, I like what I am seeing by trying such new feature when I open old projects I have worked on, and the images re-massaged look more cinematic. So, that is the motivation to keep asking the veterans to share with us, the mere mortals, about their experiences that allow them to master it.

So, to answer directly your question, there is a wealth of knowledge out there, and I would like to use this cyber-community to openly ask those that have mastered the technique, to illuminate the rest of us by sharing their knowledge on this area, so we all can benefit from it.

I always have seen this forum as a way to learn, and share with others my experiences so others can benefit. So, no, color space is no my interest to discuss on this thread, just Log grading, its benefits, its advantages, its limitations, etc.

Cheers,


PS: Grading within different color spaces is an area I feel I master. I have successfully graded different projects for film printing, DCI, broadcast, sRGB, etc.
 
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