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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Log Grading

Luis Otero

Luis Otero

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Since we have best of the best in this cyber-community, I would like to open this thread to ask all those masters (Mr. Most, Jake, etc., just to mention a couple of them) to share with us, from their point of view and in a layman way, not just what Log grading is, but the benefits of it over the "traditional" LGG three grading system. So, would like to open the forum to everyone that can contribute, by explaining or asking the questions we all have, about this subject.


THANKS...!
 
I always shoot in Log, but I work with a team of editors, and a colorist that grades all of my images. Mark Toia, would be a great source of knowledge for you, he shoots in Log, and grades all of his own...
 
Mark,

Do not be "shy": dive in and spill YOUR beans, man...!
 
Hi Mark, Log grading is one of the +90 new features in Resolve v9. You can, in every corrector node, use Log and Linear controls concurrently. You can also use LUTs in the nodes so if your preference is to apply a log grade in node 1, 2 etc , to get your image in the range, then a log to lin LUT and then linear grade after that, its all up to you as the creative flexibility is there.
Would love to hear your operational insight and preferences.
Peter
 
Im a Resolve user :)
and Base light.
I also grade in FCP (shock horror)
I also grade in AE (shock horror)

So long as I get the looks Im after, Im sweet.

But my base is always a perfect white balanced color neutral REDLOGFILM setting... everything starts from that point. Weather it be from a transcoded PRORES FILE, A DPX or direct from the R3D. It's all the same.
Starting from the cleanest point forward you cannot screw up.


this is from the olden days of RED... now its even better !!
http://www.zoomfilmtv.com.au/ftp/JUNK/Pro_res_in_real_time_(Car).mov
 
I know of a couple of major A-list colorists on the West side of Los Angeles doing $100 million+ projects who do all their correction in linear, because he's more comfortable working that way. I don't think it matters provided you have enough range and a suitable LUT to push the material in the color space in which you're working.

When I was using Lustre, I went back and forth between correcting in Lab Points vs. Linear, and I can see where the former might be suitable if you were dealing with an old-school DP who specifically said, "give me 2 points of red." But I think those days are pretty much done.

To me, it's all about the final destination for the deliverables. If you're delivering Rec709, color-correct in that space. There are conversion LUTs to get it into XYZ for D-Cinema, and it's not that far off (but is visibly different). When doing a film project in P3 color space, I try to be very careful once it's time to do the Rec709 pass, because I've found the transition is not 100% automatic. I still feel a need to go through and do some overall adjustments, but we can do it a lot faster today than we used to. The TV pan/scan process actually takes more time than the color correction (assuming a scope feature).

So as far as I'm concerned "log color correction" means anything you want it to mean. If you're color correcting from log-space DPX files, then that's essentially what you're doing, but choosing a log or linear adjustment boils down to the response of the knobs. I've worked with Baselight on both the Log and Linear sides of color correction, and there's useful features in both. I think different colorists come up with different ways of working, and it boils down more to personal preference, range, and speed.

If you've been correcting your projects this entire time in Linear, and it works, I wouldn't feel a massive need to change.
 
I for one, always grade in Log... There are colleagues here that have not voiced their opinion, yet. Who knows what "secret sauce recipe" they are willing to share on this new available tool that Resolve has provided know. I am with Peter: want to hear more from others' workflow.

Guys, just start typing...
 
I have worked as a colorist on around 30 featurefilms. Many of them graded in Lineear (more correctly Rec 709) colorspace and others in Log space through a Truelight or Cinespace colourmanagement system using a film lookuptable for the grading preview. The difference in the way the material behaves in the grading between rec709 and log in those cases was huge. Since you view everything through your filmstock emulation, already at base grade colors look very natural and i spent much less time fiddling with the secondaries trying to get a filmic look. Also the way the shadows and highlights have a more natural rolloff in the grading process is very nice. On my last featurefilm as DOP we graded on baselight with truelight colormanagement We baked the filmlut into the dcp and it really looked amazing. Even in highly saturated scenes, where colors and skintones graded in rec 709 or p3 would have quickly the tendency to look a bit artificial and videoish, the filmlog grade looked really good. Lars von Triers "Antichrist" was my first film where i graded Red material in Log.
 
I can see, that everyone is little confused on the meaning of Log grading controls. It seems, that almost everyone posted, so far, thinks, that if the material is Log, then the grading is Log. It couldn't be farther from the truth. Traditionally, Log grading refers to Exposure/Brightness and Contrast controls with pivot point. Exposure/Brightness essentially are the RGB offsets controls, mapped to the trackball. So, when Exposure/Brightness trackball is used, RGB offsets are manipulated at the same time, resulting in the cleanest adjustments possible. Also that means, that color adjutment is the most natural, akin to using a color filter. This way, there is no need to do separate adjustments to L/M/H. Contrast control is just what it sounds like, contrast adjustment. Again, no need to manipulate L/M/H back and fourth in order to chage the contrast. Just adjust contrast and use the pivot point to your liking. Additionally, an automatic S curve can be introduced in contrast control, resulting in less blown out high and low areas of the pictures. So basically, Log grading is Vastly superior to the traditional telecine style L/M/H controls, getting you there much, much faster, while cleaner to boot. But all this is academic, as it is not available, unless one spends $30k on the BM panel. I'll just use Baselight, Filmmaster or Lustre, if I need all professional color grading controls.
 
Peter Chamberlain said:
Just to clarify, the Resolve and Resolve Lite log controls are available on the UI as well as the BMD panels.
Peter
Click to expand...
Duly noted, but it can't be used with the trackball on any panel, other than BM. What's the point, if Log grading can only be used with a mouse? You don't expect people to start grading with a mouse, do you? So, as far as i'm personally concerned, Log grading is still not implemented in Resolve.
I'd understand, if Log grading was implemented, like the noise reducer, multiple GPU, higher, that HD resolution or remote grading. Those features are only available with the full version. Log grading is the only "must have" feature, requiring $30k investment:banghead:
 
jake blackstone said:
... Traditionally, Log grading refers to Exposure/Brightness and Contrast controls with pivot point. Exposure/Brightness essentially are the RGB offsets controls, mapped to the trackball. So, when Exposure/Brightness trackball is used, RGB offsets are manipulated at the same time, resulting in the cleanest adjustments possible. Also that means, that color adjutment is the most natural, akin to using a color filter. This way, there is no need to do separate adjustments to L/M/H...
Click to expand...

I'm translating this to my low end adobe work flow ... but this sounds similar to me, as adjusting the ISO on the red-raw as i line up the film between cuts(not doing anything but slighting changing the iso), then after all the cuts in a scene have the same looking "exposure/brightness", applying S-Curves (i normally start with gamma) on entire scenes as I align to my reference colors?
 
PatrickFaith said:
I'm translating this to my low end adobe work flow ... but this sounds similar to me, as adjusting the ISO on the red-raw as i line up the film between cuts(not doing anything but slighting changing the iso), then after all the cuts in a scene have the same looking "exposure/brightness", applying S-Curves (i normally start with gamma) on entire scenes as I align to my reference colors?
Click to expand...

It is always a good idea to use metadata ISO/FLUT, when there is a severe discrepancy, like over and under exposure. You will get better results using those controls, rather than, something like Log Exposure/Brightness or Highlight control inside Resolve. Otherwise, the terminology might sound similar, except it's not:-)
 
We continue to review the broad range of feedback we receive Mike and see what fits into our product plan and R&D schedule. Till we formally announce though, I couldn't say when we can implement those specific controls.
Peter
 
Peter Chamberlain said:
We continue to review the broad range of feedback we receive Mike and see what fits into our product plan and R&D schedule. Till we formally announce though, I couldn't say when we can implement those specific controls.
Peter
Click to expand...
No worries, would be really nice if/when these options could be mapped to the knobs. Thanks for the fantastic upgrade.
 
Peter Chamberlain said:
We continue to review the broad range of feedback we receive Mike and see what fits into our product plan and R&D schedule. Till we formally announce though, I couldn't say when we can implement those specific controls.
Peter
Click to expand...
Peter.
Just curious. Is this a new BM marketing philosophy? In the past there were two version of Resolve, that would pretty much determine features available.
It seems, with Log grading feature this is no longer the case. It's use now limited by only the hardware. Is this up-selling pressure, that we should now expect in the future?
 
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