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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Little SNEEK PEAK @ The 15 day red epic shoot in UZBEKISTAN

Yousuf Abbasi said:
Aaa... You're not a saint so don't be preaching like you're the doer of all good. Question yourself before questioning others. Avi is a big boy, he can figure out whats right and wrong on his own.
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What are you talking about???
You're accusing me of something, you're a big boy. Stop with the innuendoes and just spill it out...
 
Yousuf Abbasi said:
LOL.. No, you misunderstood. All i'm saying is youre sounding like a superhero trying to bring justice to the world. And theres better places to start than Avi's post about his music video.
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Yes, I did misunderstand:-)
But I don't believe there should be any place, reduser included, where despicable characters could be promoted and celebrated. But I could be wrong...
 
In life all I can do is my best :)

Thank you all for your time, I know how busy things can be.
 
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Jake and Avi, interesting conversation guys, you have excellent points.

-The production team clearly had a blast, great to see that.
-What would I do in Avi's situation? Would I help create a music video starring a dictator's daughter? Like Avi said, there are a ton of variables that go into it. I'm sure Avi thought it through well, and made a solid decision.

Thanks Jake for bringing info to those that had no clue (me). Thanks Avi for posting your project.
 
Jake, I do find it terribly ironic that you have such a strong stand against a murderous dictator, but the moment I click on your demo reel, I'm immediately blasted with the image of a mostly nude woman. So in your eyes a dictator is wrong and shouldn't be supported, yet the "art" you produce contributes in ways, however small, to the worldwide epidemics of sex slave trade, rape, adultery and the overall degradation of women. In YOUR mind it is art. In God's mind, it is just as evil as murder.... Jesus equates hatred to murder and lust to adultery. (Matt 5-7, respected by most world religions) On the one hand, I agree with you... I wouldn't do work for a dictator's family. BUT I also would NOT work on the the images you do either because it serves a dictator of another kind, the dictator of lust and sex. And more people are hurt, genuinely HURT, in who they are as people, by those kinds of images, than will ever be hurt by some eastern European dictator. I know the crowd is small that believes this, but it is true nonetheless. Murder hurts people immediately. Lust and adultery hurt people over the long haul. Broken families, broken relationships. And lust is fed by the entertainment and advertising industries. So the man who cheats on his wife and destroys his family MIGHT have started down that path looking at images that you helped make look as sensual as possible. We all have choices to make. If I were you, I'd choose not to work for THAT dictator.
 
Haha Avi, I'll bet you didn't expect the thread to head in this direction!

Andy Roberts said:
...because it serves a dictator of another kind, the dictator of lust and sex
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Most comical line I've ever read on Reduser, and if you've spent any time on this site, there's quite a few...

And Andy, please do not EVER bring religion into a conversation here on Reduser. This is a camera and cinematography forum, not your own personal pulpit. No one wants to hear you preach.

Furthermore, you have no right to insult Jake's choices and work, as you've displayed none of your own. More arm-chair criticism from guys who bought a camera and think that puts them in the position to insult other people. Take a look at my site. According to you I serve the dictator of lust and sex, too. Right?

Avi Cohen said:
This is the BTS for the lovely and talented Uzbek artist Googoosha and a little taste of her song round run.
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Sorry Avi, but she seems neither lovely (according to her bio) nor talented (according to all of her music...).

Also, I personally wouldn't publicize this too much. You worked for a bloodthirsty dictator's daughter, who herself has proven to be an awful person. If producers find out, that's verrryyy bad for business. An ASC DP once told me the following about how good producers and directors hire DP's, though less so operators (which is what I do): "You don't get hired for the work you do, you get hired for the work you don't do." While somewhat convoluted, the point is clear. Be picky about your projects, or else you'll end up working on bad shows for your whole career.
 
Andy Roberts said:
Jake, I do find it terribly ironic that you have such a strong stand against a murderous dictator, but the moment I click on your demo reel, I'm immediately blasted with the image of a mostly nude woman. So in your eyes a dictator is wrong and shouldn't be supported, yet the "art" you produce contributes in ways, however small, to the worldwide epidemics of sex slave trade, rape, adultery and the overall degradation of women. In YOUR mind it is art. In God's mind, it is just as evil as murder.... Jesus equates hatred to murder and lust to adultery. (Matt 5-7, respected by most world religions) On the one hand, I agree with you... I wouldn't do work for a dictator's family. BUT I also would NOT work on the the images you do either because it serves a dictator of another kind, the dictator of lust and sex. And more people are hurt, genuinely HURT, in who they are as people, by those kinds of images, than will ever be hurt by some eastern European dictator. I know the crowd is small that believes this, but it is true nonetheless. Murder hurts people immediately. Lust and adultery hurt people over the long haul. Broken families, broken relationships. And lust is fed by the entertainment and advertising industries. So the man who cheats on his wife and destroys his family MIGHT have started down that path looking at images that you helped make look as sensual as possible. We all have choices to make. If I were you, I'd choose not to work for THAT dictator.
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Not sure what's worse- tolerating murderous behavior or religious intolerance:banghead:
 
Alex Kornreich said:
Sorry Avi, but she seems neither lovely (according to her bio) nor talented (according to all of her music...).

Also, I personally wouldn't publicize this too much. You worked for a bloodthirsty dictator's daughter, who herself has proven to be an awful person. If producers find out, that's verrryyy bad for business. An ASC DP once told me the following about how good producers and directors hire DP's, though less so operators (which is what I do): "You don't get hired for the work you do, you get hired for the work you don't do." While somewhat convoluted, the point is clear. Be picky about your projects, or else you'll end up working on bad shows for your whole career.
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I'd like to think Im a stand up guy, with humility, empathy and... hmm...

Well, again, Im not sure how many more times I can say it, but life, film, the creation of art for a living, and international politics... aren't quite as blue and white ;) as a wikipedia page... There's a million variables in every situation, and Im not in a hurry to hide or sweep under the rug projects or decisions in life I made as an adult male, worked hard on, and am excited to see flourish. After all, I went there to shoot a "music video" not a "guide to oppression, how to video". I read, every ounce of material on the country positive and negative, had many conference calls with the production team abroad made the decisions I did. Flew there saw every inch of the country and its people, rich to pour first hand, never felt out of integrity wile I was there for a minute and would not only do it all over again, but would excitedly post it here again, if I had the chance. :)
 
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Avi Cohen said:
I'd like to think Im a stand up guy, with humility, empathy and... hmm...

Well, again, Im not sure how many more times I can say it, but life, film, the creation of art for a living, and international politics... aren't quite as blue and white ;) as a wikipedia page... There's a million variables in every situation, and Im not in a hurry to hide or sweep under the rug projects or decisions in life I made as an adult male, worked hard on, and am excited to see flourish. After all, I went there to shoot a "music video" not a "guide to oppression, how to video". I read, every ounce of material on the country positive and negative, had many conference calls with the production team abroad made the decisions I did. Flew there saw every inch of the country and its people, rich to pour first hand, never felt out of integrity wile I was there for a minute and would not only do it all over again, but would excitedly post it here again, if I had the chance. :)
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Wow, you still don't get it. You did a music video, promoting and celebrating an international pariah, paid by blood money, taken from the very Uzbeks you're so professing to love. Well, Uzbeks don't really have a choice on the matter, but you, most certainly, do! Would you do a music video for one of Saddam's or Gaddafi's sons, if asked? How about a video promoting peaceful nuclear power in Iran? Or the difference is, that she's a glamorous despot, living in Switzerland, because she "loves" Uzbekistan so much?
 
jake blackstone said:
Not sure what's worse- tolerating murderous behavior or religious intolerance:banghead:
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So you "preach" your moral convictions to Ari without even the slightest generosity of spirit and yet you are calling me religiously intolerant. You're free to do whatever you want to do. I'm just pointing out that when you start drawing moral lines in this world of moral ambiguity, it is important to know that everyone has different lines. You are the one preaching a doctrine of intolerance here... just because I choose to draw my line with Jesus--the only person to ever raise the dead or walk on water--I'm suddenly the religious bigot...??? hmmm. You do a great job at what you do, one of the best in the business. Contrary to what Alex said, I'm not criticizing your work, just questioning your choice of subjects when you are taking such a moral high ground against Avi... Believe it or not, I'm not against you. I'm just pointing out that sensual imagery hurts people too. I've seen it first hand and seen how it destroys families. Growing up as a child of divorce probably helps me feel the sting of its effect. But I'll bow out now.
 
jake blackstone said:
Wow, you still don't get it. You did a music video, promoting and celebrating an international pariah, paid by blood money, taken from the very Uzbeks you're so professing to love. Well, Uzbeks don't really have a choice on the matter, but you, most certainly, do! Would you do a music video for one of Saddam's or Gaddafi's sons, if asked? How about a video promoting peaceful nuclear power in Iran? Or the difference is, that she's a glamorous despot, living in Switzerland, because she "loves" Uzbekistan so much?
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I guess all I can say is Jake... All of us that have iphones or pump gas, in some way contribute to the mistreatment (consciously if you have any sense about you) of people. The iphone was probably made by young underpaid workers in China, consistently taken advantage of by there situation. and so on... Furthermore, regarding celebration and promotion, I think its a stretch to say that making a music video is, any thing but making a music video...

It's hard to say what the right answer is regarding a lot of things in life with many variables..., but one thing I can say on this one, is that the whole supplied crew of misfit russian, uzbek, korean, etc... jib operators through AD's were super incredible people, nothing I saw them do, or did myself felt out of integrity there. We were payed to go make art, not scrutinize or support any kind of behavior good or bad, when I left I felt like I had a new family I was gonna miss, and I think I can say for all of us that came from America and the UK to make it happen, that we'd do it over in a heart beat if it came before us again. Gulnra personally was a pretty incredible woman that has many non profits supporting the arts and film and has invited us back for what they call "master classes" in october @ a big free media and arts festival she holds for the former USSR and surrounding countries.

I appreciate your heart and advocacy for humanity Jakey Jake... Empathy and humility are fundamental building blocks to leading righteous life and making the world a better place. Practicing what you preach (the integrity block... one underneath both the two above) is also key...

That being said, no offense man, but I think that there are two many variables in this one to just start casting stones of hatred in my teams direction in general especially without at least asking a couple questions (probably privately ;) to keep in line with the old integrity block mentioned above) first...

I hope you all can find it in your heart to take a look @ what we create in the end with kind, warm, loving empathetic eyes as we're all pretty incredible people with what I feel like is a heart full of the above mentions assets and all, read every last thing about Uzbekistan, its people and its alleged way of life, spent countless days on the phone with everyone there before we went, made all of our own righteous decisions and worked as hard as humanly possible on this one. We hope it shows. More to come soon.

-Avi Cohen
www.AviCohen.tv
 
Avi Cohen said:
Gulnra personally was a pretty incredible woman that has many non profits supporting the arts and film and has invited us back for what they call "master classes" in october @ a big free media and arts festival she holds for the former USSR and surrounding

-Avi Cohen
www.AviCohen.tv
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I'm obviously not getting through to you. You keep trying to imply, that somehow because you had worked with great team of people, the subject matter and who paid for work doesn't really matter. And I guess the purpose of music video is not to promote and to celebrate the artist, but to do... what?
May be few of these articles can explain better, than I can, but somehow, I doubt it...
At least Sting had donated the proceeds to non profits, will you?
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2010/03/sting-in-uzbekistan.html
http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insightb/articles/eav022510A.shtml
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/lostinshowbiz/2010/feb/22/sting-uzbekistan
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...s-concert-daughter-boil-enemies-dictator.html
http://www.motherjones.com/riff/201...or-problem-karimov-boil-alive-torture-concert
 
Jake, In all sincerity with no snarkieness or sarcasm, I continue to find your stance on this issue to have all the markings of moral conviction...

1) You're convinced that your stance is right and that Ari's is wrong
2) You believe it so strongly that you're willing to crossover that uncomfortable line of actually speaking your mind rather than shrugging and saying, "Ah, to each his own."
3) You are actually giving him advice as to what he should do instead (e.g. not do the job at all but if he does do it, give his payment to charity)

So even though, apparently, your conviction on this issue is not related to religion, some might say you have all the INTOLERANT characteristics of essentially saying to Ari... "I'm right, you're wrong, and you're a lesser person because you don't believe, think and act like I do."

In your mind, there is no debate. Your stance is TRUTH and you don't see any other path that is humane or reasonable.

I will fully admit that there are many religious people (Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, etc) that use their beliefs as a weapon to make themselves feel special and better than others. They use it to divide. They are NOT motivated by a love of others but simply by their desire to be right. That is not the type of Christian I want to be. According to Jesus Himself, those people are not Christians at all, even though they wear His name.

I'm simply asking you to step into another person's shoes for a moment and imagine that they have beliefs that they feel VERY strongly about, just as strongly as you feel about this issue with Ari. Their beliefs happen to be based on the idea that moral guidelines are not of human origin, but come from our Creator, who built us and knows what's best for us. (As an example, when Red posts the PDF of the EpicX user manual, are they being legalistic or rigid or intolerant when they expect us to follow their instructions for maximum/ideal use and enjoyment of the camera? Won't we break the camera and void it's warranty if we choose to just do whatever we want with it?)

A person who believes strongly about something, and then tries to help someone else come to that point of view, is not necessarily rigid and intolerant. They may simply be trying to help, doing what they think is best for the other person. My assumption is that you're trying to help Ari and help him do right by the people of Uzbekistan. That is the same thing a true Christian is trying to do when sharing their faith with another person.

So similar to the position you are taking with Ari, just because a person of faith is trying hard to help someone see the world from their point of view doesn't mean they are biggoted, fundamentalist zealots. Those exist for sure. They are probably the majority because it is easier to feel arrogantly "right" than it is to love with humility. But there are some out there who are simply trying to love their neighbors by pointing them in the direction that has brought tremendous joy, meaning and healing to their own life and relationships. If you've gotten this far, thanks for hearing me out.
 
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