Litepanels Initiates Legal Action to Stop Most LED fixtures from entering the United

[Martin Ludwig]

it is a vitec company, like sachtler, vinten, OConnor, manfrotto, anton bauer and some more.. it´s your choice to buy stuff from them.
www.vitecgroup.com

 

[Martin Stevens]

In the mid 1990s I bought one of the first white LEDs and did some test shoots. Dang, I should have patented the idea of using LEDs for film lighting purposes.

(Totally irrelevant, but the results were all over in terms of colour temperature, but I used a b/w still framegrab from the PD100 as background for my Psion Camerassistant software.)

The irony is that the USPTO does not allow ideas to be patented...... yet they do.

 

[Michael Panfeld]

I have obtained a copy of the Litepanel complaint. It lists the following, and I must say, popular LED lights as infringing:

FloLight Micro-Beam 1024
FloLight Micro-Beam 256
Ikan ID-500
Ikan ILED-155
Ikan ILED 312
Cool Light CL-LED 1200 BF
Cool Light CL-LED 600
Elation TVL 2000
Fotodiox 312AS
Fotodiox Pro-LED 1000ASV
Fotodiox 500AV
Z-96
Stellar STL-96D


I can also say that they are asking for a general ban on imports of LED fixtures that infringe. In short, they are not limiting their request to the named models, but to all models from all companies of LED lights (that infringe).

I also found this in Vitec Group's 2010 Annual Report:

Low-cost competition

The Group is at risk from low-cost competitors who may sell similar products at lower prices, particularly for higher volume items such as the simpler photographic tripods. While the Group also sources those cheaper products from lower-cost countries, it combats this threat by patenting its technologies wherever possible and taking action against any infringement, continuously innovating its products and employing its significant marketing and distribution capabilities.

 

[Michael Panfeld]

Its funny to see a thread from DVX User listed as evidence in a federal filing. They also cite research at the 2011 NAB show

 

[Michael Panfeld]

Eileen: I can tell you that my original post was simultaneously posted on DVXUser's Forum. Litepanels is a sponsor. The thread was removed entirely shortly after I posted it. Likewise, Litepanels is a sponsor of Creative Cow. I read on another site that any post on this topic at Creative Cow is removed almost immediately. At least REDUSER is a more open forum.

LED lighting is trendy for TV and video work because it offers lower heat and electricity costs to inudustrial users, such as studios. It also allows them to claim some kind of "green" accreditation.
However, I think the AMPAS report and its research results on solid state lighting is pretty conclusive that LED lighting is just not yet ready for film work, and for some of the same reasons that you have noted.

I do take issue a bit with your criticism of Richard A. of Coollights. He is at least trying to address the flaws and quirks of LED lighting on the boards. Ever see anything from Litepanels?

Everybody over markets their products. Even restaurants who publish calorie counts understate them. I don't like it, but at least I am aware of it. I carry a light meter and a color temp meter on every set and I test lights.

I can tell you that I have found exaggerated and inconsistent photometrics from all manufacturers. We all know the inverse square rule, right? Look at the published tables for all of the manufacturers and you will find photometrics that defy the laws of physics. Its just simply math to look at a lux reading for 10 feet and 20 feet and divide them. If it doesn't equal 4 (or 1/4th) then magic has just occured. Take a light, a tape measure, and a light meter. I have and I have created a spreadsheet that both catalogs the results and also calculates what the readings should be at any given distance. You would be surprised at the results.

Caveat emptor as they say.

That said, I have yet to hear anything from any of the manufacturers/exporters or from Litepanels on any forum regarding this claim. Given that all imported LEDs, other than Litepanels, stand to be shut out of the US market in as little as 6 months I would expect to hear something. Nothing but crickets.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

I’m no fan of Litepanels, but they are no more guilty of false advertising than other dealers of LED fixtures....

I totally agree. Good comments, Eileen. I found it impossible to make any judgements as to the power output of any LED fixture because the "specifications" given by just about every vendor are just pure BS and a clear contradition to laws of physics. This is probably why I still have not bought any lighting and still looking, LOL

 

[Richard Andrewski]

Michael,

I'm not going to comment in detail at this time as there is no hearing at the ITC yet until they accept the petition and I am certainly not interested in telegraphing strategies in public for what we may do or how we may respond. Nor am I a spokesman for the other respondents or their law teams so wouldn't presume to speak for them.

From a general standpoint yes, they are seeking not just to ban Cool Lights LED 600 and 1200 products but ALL LED photographic lighting coming into the USA, so many more are affected on both sides of seller and buyer than just us. I assume they are mostly seeking royalties/licensing fees from a negotiation point of strength and any of the respondents that default (don't show up) at the hearing(s) will most likely get an import ban on their products. This of course is just into the USA and doesn't affect our or other similar business ability to ship from other countries to other countries. We plan to show up of course, can't speak for the others. They only named companies from China or doing business in China at this point, but a general ban on LED lighting would most likely hit all imports from anywhere if they are successful.

In addition, you made no post on dvxuser.com, it was dvinfo.net, I saw it over there before it was removed by their management. Another person tried to make such a posting as well and had it removed. I can't say why they removed them (as I don't speak for the management over there) but yes I think it could have to do with that the plaintiff in the case is a sponsor on that board as well as IKAN, a respondent in the case is a sponsor as well.

That's pretty much all I have to say about it for now. Lets see what happens.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

I feel for you, Richard. I don't know the details of this case, but on the surface it looks ridiculous. The sooner it is resolved the better for everybody.

 

[Richard Andrewski]

Thanks Pawel, we do appreciate. Given natural conclusion and hearings it could be 12 to 18 months before its finished based on averages for these kinds of ITC hearings. Till any conclusion, we have been and will continue to be doing our normal business activities including development of larger fixtures we've talked about on here before.

 

[Jonathan Stevenson]

Thanks Pawel, we do appreciate. Given natural conclusion and hearings it could be 12 to 18 months before its finished based on averages for these kinds of ITC hearings. Till any conclusion, we have been and will continue to be doing our normal business activities including development of larger fixtures we've talked about on here before.

I, for one, am very excited to get my first LED panels from you guys. I have a hard light kit and they're treating me well. I hope all of this is resolved in a painless manner...

 

[Richard Andrewski]

Thanks for your business and comments Jonathan.

 

[ian dart]

over the years i have learnt to take the manufacturers specs with a grain of salt.
what really counts is how a light works in the real world.
having a range of lights from 150 dedo's up to 2.5 hmi and everything in between there
is a time and a place for every type of light, incandescant, flouro, hmi and led.
relying on leds as the only part of a kit is unwise, but as a complement to traditional lighting fixtures it is a handy piece of
gear.
i have a couple of richards led panels and am more than happy with them.

ian

 

[Tim Morten]

I don’t. The reason that companies like Arri, Nila, and Gekko are not named in the suit is that their light panels contain new innovations that the Litepanel 1x1s do not. You can’t be guilty of patent infringement if you have improved upon the product. Cool Lights’ light panels, on the other hand, are nothing more than cheap clones of the Litepanel 1x1s and not very good ones at that (see “Good 3rd party LED review” ). What I find equally offensive is the way Cool Lights has used their sponsorship of this forum to market their product as if it was the equal of the Litepanels. You can’t blame Litepanels for fighting back. I also think Litepanel’s sponsorship without medaling in the editorial content of the forum is preferable to Cool Lights active spinning the editorial content of the boards to their favor by propagating half-truths. In print journalism this is called “advertorialism.” Richard turns Reduser into an on-line version of “Videomaker” or “Markee” where every article is about a company that pays big bucks to advertises in the magazine.

Eileen Ryan, Gaffer

Eileen -

I don't have a horse in this race, but your post feels like too much vitriol to me. I own 4 LED panels from CoolLights, and my eyes are happy with what I am getting out of them, including the bi-colors. Your assertions on spectral analysis may be technically valid, but I don't feel lied to or cheated by Richard - the intensity and color spectrum are both great for my needs, and Richard's pricing and level of communication have been excellent.

I'm not saying you are technically wrong in any way, but IMO you are being WAY too harsh in your judgement: you're discounting that most of us care more about what we see than about spectral analysis, and you're personalizing this against Richard to an extent that seems neither warranted nor appropriate.

Many vendors, sponsors or otherwise, mention their products in these forums, from Adobe to Assimilate to Abel Cinetech to Viewfactor to Action Products to Element Technica etc. I take no offense from this, and I am often happy to have their contributions. I am even happier when they offer forum discounts. No one is calling RedUser a source for print journalism - we all understand that this is an internet forum.

Cheers,
Tim

 

[Martin Stevens]

Hello Richard,

I too own some of your LED lights......nice price point, thanks.

I hope that when you go to this ITC hearing you bring a "Lite Bright" toy (not really an LED product)
with you and some other LED array fixtures
from industries outside the film world that predate Litepanels fixtures.
I've seen LED array lighting way before Litepanels came on the scene.

BEST OF LUCK TO YOU!

 

[Michael Olsen]

Richard,

Thanks for posting here - it's great to hear things straight from the source.

I wish you the best of luck in producing an outcome which is not only legal, but just and fair.

 

[Michael Panfeld]

Richard: you are correct, it was DVinfo, not DVXuser.

I own one of Richard's fluoro fixtures and have a few of his fluoro lamps. Both great products. I owned two of Richard's 256 panels and returned them to the seller (way too blue for me).

And to clarify, when I was talking about the inconsistent photometric tables published by the manufacturers, I was speaking about all light sources, including tungsten and HMIs. Go to an ARRI catalog, pick out a few tunsgten lights and do the math. You will find lux results that defy the laws of physics.

 

[Richard Andrewski]

And to clarify, when I was talking about the inconsistent photometric tables published by the manufacturers, I was speaking about all light sources, including tungsten and HMIs. Go to an ARRI catalog, pick out a few tungsten lights and do the math. You will find lux results that defy the laws of physics.

Yes, I know what you mean about Arri. On their website they used to just post these photometric tables for each fixture and they seemed relatively "real world". Then they put in this "photometric calculator" java app on the site and all of a sudden there was a huge jump in output for all the fixtures. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, I think that calculator could use some more work to make it accurate.

Thanks for all your comments everyone! Really helps us remember what we do it for.

 

[JimDaugherty]

I tried to post on Creative Cow and got shut down immediately. Sponsorship has it privilege. I posted this on my website. SDFCPUG.com I did some research and I found out that they have been suing people over these patents since 2006. I have other information. Case numbers and some interesting info. I have experience as a expert witness and these patents are a bunch of crap. They are not innovation they are extortion by litigation. I will show up a DV Expo in pasadena and let litepanels know what I think of this crap.

 

[Richard Andrewski]

Just an update. Cool Lights, IKAN and Flolights / Prompterpeople filed their joint response today to this complaint. Our defenses are many but most importantly alleging that prior art does in fact exist (to invalidate the patents in question) and we listed it in the complaint. Elation filed their own response, I have yet to see it. Stellar Lighting I am not sure about. Today was the deadline for the American respondents, the Chinese ones have another 5 days to respond and from what we know, they all have their own lawyers and will file their own responses. I'm sure these responses will all be available for download from the ITC website soon if not immediately.

 

[Michael Panfeld]

Thanks Richard. Best of luck.