Limewire owes $1Billion. And BP owes less than $100M.

[Meryem Ersoz]

I think we might have to ask ourselves this question too, as it relates directly to this crisis. Would we be willing to stop using our gasoline based cars, stop heating our homes with oil, and stop using products made with oil in order to force the oil industry's hand? Do we have the ingenuity to find alternatives that can truly serve our best interests? Do we think this transition can happen quickly? Are we willing to change our lifestyles if need be?

It's one thing to be angry at these perceived evil corporations, it's another to take action, to change the world. Attempts have been made and have been crushed. So, where do we all stand? Are we willing to stand up for what we believe is right? Do we even all agree what "right" is? Is a congruous society possible? It's a very complex situation.

This point always gets raised - that the finger points back at us. I wholeheartedly disagree. Corporate America has had this country by the short hairs and has been crushing innovation at every turn and kept in the back pocket of oil interests. The costs of innovating in the energy economy have been stunningly prohibitive and eight years of an oilman at the helm - a very crucial 8 years in which a lot of change could have been implemented, but instead we bought ourselves another new war, squandered goodwill towards our country throughout the world, and spent down a surplus. Pro-environmental innovation has been crushed. Technologies already exist that have never been implemented - there are non-petroleum based, organic plastic resins which could have been in the marketplace years ago...years ago.

It is a crime against humanity that these innovations have been squashed at every turn. Not driving our cars is only one means of controlling consumption - the truth is, it infuses so many daily items in our lives - and we wholly unconscious.

The politicians at the helm have to get out of bed with the oil interests that have run this country for far too long - for most of the 20th century. Have to. The clock is ticking on a time bomb that has already exploded. The rest is a big giant game of catch-up.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

This point always gets raised - that the finger points back at us. I wholeheartedly disagree. Corporate America has had this country by the short hairs and has been crushing innovation at every turn and kept in the back pocket of oil interests. The costs of innovating in the energy economy have been stunningly prohibitive and eight years of an oilman at the helm - a very crucial 8 years in which a lot of change could have been implemented, but instead we bought ourselves another new war, squandered goodwill towards our country throughout the world, and spent down a surplus. Pro-environmental innovation has been crushed. Technologies already exist that have never been implemented - there are non-petroleum based, organic plastic resins which could have been in the marketplace years ago...years ago.

It is a crime against humanity that these innovations have been squashed at every turn. Not driving our cars is only one means of controlling consumption - the truth is, it infuses so many daily items in our lives - and we wholly unconscious.

The politicians at the helm have to get out of bed with the oil interests that have run this country for far too long - for most of the 20th century. Have to. The clock is ticking on a time bomb that has already exploded. The rest is a big giant game of catch-up.

So who changes this? That's the point. We can all identify the problem, we all know there are alternatives, yet as you said this has been going on for a long time. How is it going to change? Let's just state for a moment that the government/politicians are essentially controlled by a few powerful corporations who essentially call a lot of the shots and have the influence to keep this big money ship sailing. How does that get disrupted? We are a nation of consumers. We fuel the big money ship, whether it's consciously or not. Every time I fill up my gas tank, buy lots of unnecessary junk, or whatever the case may be I am contributing. If I don't agree with the way these corporations conduct business or I am downright angry at them, isn't it up to me to do my part to oppose them, or at the very least not support them financially? And isn't it by power in numbers, i.e. gathering others who feel the same way that leads to real change?

I don't necessarily disagree with your points, I just wonder if we as a society have the stones to stand up to it. Do we have clearly thought out alternatives to the current system? Or is it possible that we all long for a Utopian society that is impossible to achieve? With 6 1/2 billion unique perspectives on this planet, it's sometimes amazes me there is any order at all.

 

[unik]

tough topic .... nonetheless, sarcasm may help (laughing)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AAa0gd7ClM

 

[Joe D'Arcy]

So who changes this? That's the point. We can all identify the problem, we all know there are alternatives, yet as you said this has been going on for a long time. How is it going to change? ........... With 6 1/2 billion unique perspectives on this planet, it's sometimes amazes me there is any order at all.

Steve, you make some interesting points. However, the bottom line in the current system is 'take responsibility for your actions including your mistakes'

I know most of us have our own definition of 'responsibility' and there is often 'other people' drawn into the equation when there there has been a mistake. But we have to simply draw the line when there has been a screw up and then sort it out. Usually we sort the problem a lot quicker when the mistake has occurred in our own backyard.

 

[Matthew Rogers]

I just want to point out to everyone that WE, the consumer, are going to pay for it one way or another. Either though higher gas prices (because ALL business taxes and fines are just passed on to the consumer) or through government taxes. We will pay what ever way it goes.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I just want to point out to everyone that WE, the consumer, are going to pay for it one way or another. Either though higher gas prices (because ALL business taxes and fines are just passed on to the consumer) or through government taxes. We will pay what ever way it goes.

I'll happily pay for a second blowout preventer on every well if it means I don't have to pay for the cleanup. Like you said, WE as customers eventually pay for that cleanup in form of higher prices from BP.

 

[Billy Barber]

Stealing is stealing is stealing.

What does that have to do with BP?

 

[Joseph Hutson]

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

There's not a better movie to demonstrate this than: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-897129633961255565#

 

[Felix K.]

I can only say that much. You are country of 300 million people. If you decide to, let's say, not use a company's product anymore, that might hurt them more than anything else. And if you worry how you can make 300 million being aware of what products they should learn to neglect, look at what you do for a living and what you can contribute to get the message out in a convincing way.

For me, I'm not buying gasoline from BP or any company that is selling BP gasoline. And I have not even been to the Gulf of Mexico.

 

[Vince Doran]

I'll happily pay for a second blowout preventer on every well if it means I don't have to pay for the cleanup. Like you said, WE as customers eventually pay for that cleanup in form of higher prices from BP.

You must be mega rich to be able to pay for a second BOP on EVERY well head, they are quite big and cost a gazillion to make and deploy.

Just 1 BOP is all that is needed, as long as it can be activated using a minimum of 5 different options to do so.
Here is a pic of a BOP we used in 300mtrs off NW Australia

 

[Matthew Rogers]

You must be mega rich to be able to pay for a second BOP on EVERY well head, they are quite big and cost a gazillion to make and deploy.

Just 1 BOP is all that is needed, as long as it can be activated using a minimum of 5 different options to do so.
Here is a pic of a BOP we used in 300mtrs off NW Australia

That's interesting because what I've seen here in the media is that they cost between $500,000 and $1 million each.

 

[Jay Gannon]

To buy, not to ship, install and deploy.

 

[Vince Doran]

You could buy a cheap one "made in China replica" or get the real thing that actually works and as Jay says you have to get it shipped onto site and install it. Then you will need a crew of 4-5 men operating an ROV 24/7 monitoring it whilst drilling. The BOP has to remain level and plumb at all times. Meanwhile the rig has to maintain its position exactly above the well head (remember that the rig is floating and not fixed to the seabed) where I have worked you get 11mtr tides, some of the biggest tides on the planet so you could imagine the currents involved with that and how hard it is to keep everything in position. Not a cheap exercise and if you don't control everything properly......well.....you know what happens.

Here's a dodgy vid I made yrs ago using one of our ROV's in 308mtrs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAvV2nl4yO4

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

So who changes this? How does that get disrupted?

With a return to a true democracy. How we get there, I do not know, social foment and acrimony seem to be the only way to tear down these walls. No one benefits, we all suffer, we all lose, but the slow drip of the erosion of integrity in this country has been no picnic, either.

I think a lot of people hoped that the election of Mr. Obama would represent a tidal change, but he has done nothing to tear down the corporate fortress built up by the previous administrations. Pretty much all he has done is maintain the status quo and sprinkle with ill-timed Obamacare. I was all for socialized medicine when it appeared that we had some money to pay for it, but not while we're broke.

Where is the SEC reform? Where is our national energy policy? Why did we continue bailing out the likes of GM, public enemy number one to energy reform for the past 30 years? (the easier, cheaper solution would have been...backstop the pension, let the company die, let it be known that no company who would destroy innovation the way that GM destroyed the EV-1 would ever receive another government dime...et cetera).

You can't let the foxes run the chicken coop and expect any serious reform. And you can't elect a chicken wearing a fox suit. We need do-overs.

Yes I'm feeling that frustrated.

 

[Elsie N]

Why did we continue bailing out the likes of GM, public enemy number one to energy reform for the past 30 years? (the easier, cheaper solution would have been...backstop the pension, let the company, let it be known that no company who would destroy innovation the way that GM destroyed the EV-1 would ever receive another government dime...et cetera).

First time I've read/heard of this solution. Very elegant. Too bad it is too late to enable.

 

[Michael Schrengohst]

With a return to a true democracy. How we get there, I do not know, social foment and acrimony seem to be the only way to tear down these walls. No one benefits, we all suffer, we all lose, but the slow drip of the erosion of integrity in this country has been no picnic, either.

I think a lot of people hoped that the election of Mr. Obama would represent a tidal change, but he has done nothing to tear down the corporate fortress built up by the previous administrations. Pretty much all he has done is maintain the status quo and sprinkle with ill-timed Obamacare. I was all for socialized medicine when it appeared that we had some money to pay for it, but not while we're broke.

Where is the SEC reform? Where is our national energy policy? Why did we continue bailing out the likes of GM, public enemy number one to energy reform for the past 30 years? (the easier, cheaper solution would have been...backstop the pension, let the company, let it be known that no company who would destroy innovation the way that GM destroyed the EV-1 would ever receive another government dime...et cetera).

You can't let the foxes run the chicken coop and expect any serious reform. And you can't elect a chicken wearing a fox suit. We need do-overs.

Yes I'm feeling that frustrated.

It was a bailout of the UAW not GM . This is about building the unions back up. ObamaCare is about building the SEIU to be an unstoppable force.
Insurance companies are already folding under the weight of ObamaCare. Over one million low income workers are set to lose their insurance coverage by September because of ObamaCare requirements. Does anyone really think the Federal Government will be able to deliver on it's promises? Social security is broke. I have paid into it for over 35 years. I doubt I will get one penny back, so I do not plan for it.

On the oil disaster....this administration is playing politics with it and the dithering and dealmaking is making it much, much worse. People are coming out everyday and showing new technologies that could be used to fight the oil spill.....crickets are chirping in D.C.

 

[conrad gaunt]

There should never have been a "liability cap" on any oil company. That is a distortion of the free market. Liability caps encourage reckless behavior. If BP knew they might be on the hook for 20 billion dollars, for example (enough to bankrupt the company and wipe out all shareholders), the CEO of BP would probably be out there in a scuba suit with a fucking shovel trying to cap that leak.

BP made 13billion profit the other year, 20billion ain't gunna sink 'em..

 

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

Smile, the future is bright.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31rec2bzmAs&fmt=18

:sifone:

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

You must be mega rich to be able to pay for a second BOP on EVERY well head, they are quite big and cost a gazillion to make and deploy.

Just 1 BOP is all that is needed, as long as it can be activated using a minimum of 5 different options to do so.
Here is a pic of a BOP we used in 300mtrs off NW Australia

Let me guess. US regulations only require 1-2 different methods to activate it? :banghead:

My point is. What's the added *fuel* price of redundancy? 0.5-1%?

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

They have plans and potential solutions to this. They have experience in capping similar leaks, including several lesser-known leaks that occurred during the Gulf War when Iraqis sabotaged and abandoned offshore rigs in the Persian Gulf.

BP will not talk to them. The US Government is steering them and many others away from the problem. No one is allowed input or the chance to actually help or attempt anything here.

In case this was missed.