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Lights Galore

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David Lagos

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Hey all,

Probably somewhere on this unbeilvable Red User resource tool this has been addressed but I'm getting into specifics here mostly because I need input from seasoned veterans on the subject.

If you had $20,000 to spend on a lighting kit, what would that kit include?
I'm aiming at pulling together a kit that will cover all the bases.

Now, my collective online mentors, you may respond.
 
What I'd add to the discussion linked is that you should have a look at the new Litepanels Sola series lights.

They are LED systems, but in a fresnel package. The Sola 6 is supposed to match the performance characteristics and light quality of a 650w fresnel, with a daylight color temperature while drawing 70w.

Each unit has a built in dimmer.

I was impressed with the Sola ENG, which is an on camera 200w fresnel equivalent, but I could never test it properly. So, I can't speak to its CRI, or any details light color shifts. They are also stupid expensive.

Also, there is a particular unit I am fond of. Most people specify Joker 400' and 800's. I very much prefer the Bron-Kobold units, at least for starter kits. Because they are weather proof. They can take a water splash from any direction.

That makes your life a lot easier, and gives you some peace of mind when the weather starts looking like it might turn. The downside is that the Joker-Bug 400 is a bit cheaper and much more versatile.

If you know you are going to have crew in all your exterior shoots that can tend to the lights in event of rain... then the Jokers make more sense. I can definitely see myself in an ENG situation though from time to time. (Hey I live in DC and news pays)

Since I am here anyway...

So how would I build a lighting kit for that kind of money today? Purchasing at retail?

I'd get two Kobold 400 HMI PAR kit ($12000)
I'd get two DivaLite 400's ($2500, in a kit with a flight case)
I'd get two DivaLite 200's ($2000, in a kit with a flight case)
Arri Softbank D5 Kit ($2500 in a kit with a travel case)
(kit includes 2 650 open face, with chimeras and 2 150w fresnel)
Arri 300/650 fresnel combo kit. ($2500 in a kit with travel case)
(kit includes 2 300w and 2 650w fresnels)

There is $21500 of lighting.

I'd recommend a bunch of grip though.

I'd drop one of the Kobold 400's from the kit above and get:

You can get 12 C+ stands and a cart for about $2500 You probably don't need 12 C stands, but C's are one of those things, I'd definitely rather have too many than not enough.

I'd get a set of 4x4 flags. Matthews 4x4 Road Rags ($600), unless you have a truck, then I'd get standard 4x4 flag kit. ($450)

I'd buy two sets of 18x24 and 24x36 flags.

"Advantage Grip" sells a flag kit that includes a single& double net, silk, 2 solids and an aluminum gel frame. There is also a selection of gels pre-cut for the frame, and a carry bag. These are a great deal if they are for your own use and you are good to your gear.

The 18x24 version is $300, and the 24x36 version is $450. So for two sets of each you'd end up with $1500

If you are renting your stuff out or if you are rough on gear, then get Matthews kits. Their kits include a silk, a solid a single and a double. They also include a wood and cello cookie. There is a bag. The main difference is that the Matthews has thicker material thats a bit harder to tear.

The 18x24 version is $450 and the 24x36 version is $600, so for two sets of each you'd be looking at $2100

I'd get an 8x8 frame and stands. You can get a cheap frame for $250. I'd get a B/W griff, which is about $130.

Two stands... I prefer overkill. So I'd get two American triple riser combo's, they are $300 each. If you re building your frame and keeping it low, you can drop it on C stands, and then use the Americans to get some other light up high.

That comes to $6100 or so.

You need a lot of odds and ends.

An apple box family is about $110. If space is at a premium you can buy "nesting" apple boxes for about the same amount. I'd get 4 sets of whatever type suits you.

I'd get 4 mafer clamps ($40 each) and 6 cardellini clamps ($60 each). I'd also get 8 Matthews scissor clamps ($12 each, these have a safety pin)

Speedrail is a good idea as well. Spending a few hundred on various fittings and then you can buy some pipe locally.

You still have ton of other little things. Sash cord, rope, ratchet straps, black wrap, 47's, spare bulbs... it goes on and on.

Finally you need a place to put all this stuff and take it to various places. You can get a new tow trailer for around $2000. With luck you can get an old cargo van for about the same money used.

You could probably use a generator too. One of the Honda 6500i's would be a good call.

So, there you have it about $20000 of G&E. Plus about $6000 of other G&E related stuff.

Best of luck to you!
 
Dear Alexander,

You are a God send. Thanks, this is exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. I am amazed at how this website has turned into an amazing place for discourse between the inexperienced and seasoned pros. Just one more awesome reason to own a Red.
 
Alexander, that was a lot of work. Thanks for your thoughtfulness
 
David Lagos said:
Alexander,

I looked for HMI's on Ebay just for the heck of it. Specifically, this light provider in China has a store and I found some stuff, but would like some input:

http://stores.ebay.com/steven-studi...77753018&_sid=113920538&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322
Click to expand...

Yeah... I am not a fan.

I have not had the displeasure of being DP or gaffer with one of those, but I recently recorded sound on a picture that had one in the truck.

We called it a Farri, as in "Fake Arri". It was a 2.5/4k Par, looks like the one they are offering at your ebay link for $5800.

It was audible on set, and had a green cast. You may note that the kit on offer does not come with lenses, and in fact they don't offer lenses. That severely limits the utility of the light. You can use Arri lenses, but they don't fit quite right

In talking to the owner of the Farri, it did not arrive in operational condition when he bought it new. Also, while the light can take some original Arri replacement parts sometimes it can't, and its hard to figure out when that's the case. Of course there was no support. He tried taking it to Arri, they laughed. Eventually he found a third party repair facility specializing in HMI.

Take a not of these support issues- if you plan on renting your gear you will have headaches!

They used the Farri to light deep backgrounds and such. You just can't put it on talent. The green spike is ridiculous. Even with minus green it looked wrong.

When lighting trees in the background though, it brought out their green nicely.

The green cast is partly from the globe, partly from the fixture and partly from the ballast. I recently rented an Arri 1200w HMI fresnel and had a green cast due to a failure in the fixture. (I got a partial refund, and a free 4x4 skinned with 1/4 minus green)

The sound, a harsh buzzing, will be picked up with mics, and is entirely the fault of the ballast.

Breaking it down: (Prices today are from B&H)

What you need is a kit that gives you a lamphead, a lamp, a yoke, lenses, a case for the head and the lenses, header cable, feeder cable, power factor corrected flicker free ballast and barndoors.

If you build such a kit using your eBay Farri kit you'll spend $4140.
You have to buy lenses, lens case and globes elsewhere. I'd say you almost certainly will have to buy a ballast if you get the Farri.

Building such a kit around an Arrisun 5 will run $7640

Its not a perfectly fair comparison... the Arri cases are ATA 300 compliant and they are plywood plus ABS plastic. The Farri cases are not ATA compliant and they are just plywood.

Another alternative is the Mole Richardson 575 par, which is $6450 for a kit. plus the globe, for $6660... an auspicious sum!

The downside is that it comes with a 575w flicker free ballast... not a 575/1200w ballast. Its also not power factor corrected... but with a 575w ballast that isn't such a huge issue. So you lose some flexibility in the ballast, but save about $1100.

An 800w Joker-Bug lite kit is $6400

Finally... you could once again look at the Kobold... you can buy in the 800w Kobold light for $7800. They are great Pars, and I can't overstate the value of being weatherproof.

So... should you gamble on the Farri?

You might be able to get running for a lot less... but if the ballast sucks, you'll have to pony up for a ballast between $2100 (for a Mole Richardson 575 ballast) to $3900 (for an Arri 575/1200). If you decide to buy in a replacement ballast I'd get a Power to Light 575/1200 ballast, which I think is $2700. It could still be a bargain light.

That said, its still a Farri. Parts and service will suck, so will the eventual resale value. If you rent, prices will be much lower. There will also be productions that will turn you down if there is a Farri in your kit. I probably wouldn't turn down an owner operator with a Farri, but I also wouldn't pay for the Farri.

I don't think I'd buy a Farri.

Now that I've re-examined this, I'd get the Joker-Bug 800w kit for a single HMI package. Jokers are very flexible lights. There are all sorts of add ons to adapt them to different uses.

I still really like the Kobold's weather resistance, but unless its likely to come up in your work, the Joker is a better value.
 
Tim Duran said:
Alexander, that was a lot of work. Thanks for your thoughtfulness
Click to expand...

Well, I just thought someone might as well benefit from my "available for work" status.

Besides... thinking about these things helps keep my thinking sharp when I'm not working.
 
I really like the Sola fresnels. Had a chance to play with the little one at a trade show this summer. Expensive perhaps, but the cost of a 250w incandescent fresnel and 20,000 hours worth of lamps far exceed the price of this little jewel. Love to have a dozen of them.
 
Hehehe.

"Farri"....

I wholeheartedly agree with Tim. To have people take time out of their schedule to help someone else out truly speaks to the creative fraternity this website has instilled in its clients. Can't thank you enough, Alexander.

"Farri". Cracks me up.
 
Hey Alex,

Been doing some more research and analyzing the pros and cons of the HMI's that are out there.

Honestly, I can work around the weather here in Honduras relatively well. You can see the rain coming from a while away and I plan on having my equipment pay for itself via renting lights out, specifically HMI's. Plus, I'll have enough PA's to help create a temporary anit-weather solution for the short term anyway.

These types of lights are basically non-existant in the country. I think there's about 4 total and those are mainly hoarded by the local TV stations. When you do get your hands on one, it'll come with a steep rental price and the quality of the HMI, gear and accesories it comes with are below standard.

Having said that, I need a flexible light that is dependable and powerful. I've decided to go with the pair of Joker 800w HMI.

http://www.filmandvideolighting.com/paofjobug800.html

If for some reason I need one during production, I can rent the other one out. And I'd avoid being without the only HMI lights in my kit by having a backup. Besides, I get two Bron Kobold 400's for $3,000 less. The price tag on this kit was too good to say no to.

Almost everything else on the list you provided ended up making the final cut, with the addition of the 2 800w Joker's. I added them on mostly because I will be doing some night shoots down the road and the more powerful and flexible lights I have the better.

PS: For anyone else looking for information and knowledge on lights, HMI's, or anything related..please look up either Guy Holt or Eileen Ryan on this website. The depth of knowledge, helpfulness, and information in any one of their posts (some are quite long, but totally worth the time spent reading them) is amazing and based on years of experience with both old and up and coming technology.

Cheers!!!
 
So, you got the two Joker 800's and two Kobold 400's?

Awesome! It seems like it would have put you a bit over budget, but it will be worth every penny.

I think you'll be very happy with the gear... and it sounds as though you'll have one of the most complete kits in country too!

Happy shooting!

Si usted necesitas ayuda, me encantaría viajar a Honduras. Tengo un acento americano terrible, pero me llevo bien. Cuando yo trabajaba en Star Trek: Phase 2 (como director de fotografía), nuestro supervisor de guión era de España. Aprendí mucho de la jerga cinemático ... pero tengo mucho más que aprender.
 
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