Joel Arvidsson
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Cool Peter, really lookking forward to se this!
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Letus Gimbal
- Thread starter Sabyasachi Patra
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Terry VerHaar
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IMO, this is a legitimate critique. Sure, you can invert the "yoke style" stabilizer and get it to eye level but then you have a problem getting it back down to a low level in the same shot. Again, IMO, one strength of the Helix is its ability to go from high back to to ground level ("suitcase" mode) in one smooth shot. I haven't quite figured out how that would be accomplished with the yoke design (with a single operator). As I have stated over and over, I think all of these product have potential to be excellent solutions. I just think the compact design of the Helix makes more sense. As for the the angles being "more comfortable" on the yoke - if we are talking about shooting at eye level, that statement is a stretch.
Les Dittert
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I keep imagining a single user with a tuned RED helix, shooting a mirror to show how it works.
Too much to ask, as only one or two exist , and they seem to be rented out or something.... Or ?
Kind of reminds me of the lack of Dragon footage R3d actually getting posted back when there were a half dozen of them out in the field.
someone PM me what's going on here, if it's more appropriate.
Joel Arvidsson
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http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?118785-Helix-Sample-Footage/page16
Here Heinle say he will do it
Here Heinle say he will do it
Matthew B
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Something I've noticed from my tests - is that this doesn't work like other gimbals as the frame and platform is much smaller - so your movement rotating side to side creates vertical bob in the camera unless you compensate as you move up and down.
At least with my setup - I can't get COG to the point where the distance below the helix to vertical center of lens feels the same as the distance from the center of the lens to the side handles - so a rapid up and down doesn't fix the lens in place with my config.
Zeb B
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Pics of your set-up plz
Matthew B
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Hi Zeb! It's pretty close to yours - no bottom plate, top plate, LCD on top on right side, Side handle.
I'll probably be pulling the side handle but I've seen the same issue in your iphone post - it is trickier to compensate for the bob in the "mirror test" with your arms as you rotate around.
I'm not sure this really matters for me as that's not why I bought the helix (moving the camera with my arms flailing like an orangutan)
I'll probably be pulling the side handle but I've seen the same issue in your iphone post - it is trickier to compensate for the bob in the "mirror test" with your arms as you rotate around.
I'm not sure this really matters for me as that's not why I bought the helix (moving the camera with my arms flailing like an orangutan)
Elizabeth Lowrey
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Les, I'll be happy to do the test and post it when I actually have my gimbal properly configured, balanced, and tuned. I've had it less than a week and have a life to live in addition to messing with it. But before I can even begin to address the software adjustments that have to be made, I have to get it balanced. I have actually balanced it well on a few occasions, even as recently as last night and thought I was probably "there" before deciding that I wanted to take another user's advice and move my monitor forward so that it misses the Helix baseplate on rolls and thereby enables a complete 360, something I will rarely use but would certainly be cool to have available on a moment's notice. I had toyed with that idea initially, discarded it because I felt it would put too much weight forward, and have come back to it. Who knows, I may change my mind again. I'm experimenting.
I have never used a steadying device of any kind before, and the first time I touched a gimbal was at NAB for a few minutes at a hotel and on the show floor. It may seem simple to seasoned users, but, for me, it's not. I have been working on these different hardware/balance configurations for DAYS just trying to get comfortable with an arrangement of where to put things, what absolutely has to be discarded and left off, what might only be occasionally used but can serve as helpful, non-dead counterweight so why not always included it, what mounting hardware is necessary in order to provide the slight moment adjustments that might be necessary for good balance, etc. The object is to to have as repeatable and simple a setup as possible when it counts, which isn't on the time frame of anxious RED Users but when I'm on a production and need to move quickly.
I understand the desire for comparisons and tests, but please understand this isn't like putting a camera on a tripod and hitting record. At least in terms of what I feel is prudent, there is a process of balancing a a lot of competing interests (no pun intended), which include overall weight, repeat-ability of setup, and cost (I'm now mulling a very nifty quick release solution that will cost me an additional $450, which I should in no way spend right now, but, on the other hand, I'd love to have my setup finalized now, and I still need some kind of wireless video solution with a mounting arrangement. I spent 6 hours on Amazon and B&H yesterday looking at cheap cellphone mounts that I might be able to adapt as mounting solutions. Does this give you any idea?)
My first time when I thought I was "balanced" and turned the rig on using stock profiles, I had a LOT of vibration in the tilt handle. As if I needed to be reminded, Hien stressed just a day or two ago that "balance, balance, balance" is the most important factor in setting up your gimbal. And, as it turned out, I wasn't nearly as balanced as I thought that first time because when I went to suitcase mode I was clearly back heavy, though not obviously so in two hand mode. There was a fine dance that I had to explore about lifting the pivot point on the side handles versus moving the camera fore/aft on its own mounting plate versus moving the entire upper Helix fore/aft on its pan motor quick release, and I still don't pretend to have mastered that. But I know each time I've "redone" my balance, it gets better. I know it's better because each time the vibration has significantly lessened in the tilt, and once I get the balance "perfect," I will embark on uploading the new profiles that Hien is developing daily with the help of RED users with real world setups, and then I will try adjusting power and PID values on my own or consulting Letus for one on one support if I need it at that time. But I'm still in the very early stages of setup.
So try to have a little more patience with those of us who are serving as guinea pigs (I prefer pioneers!) with this exciting but new and complex technology (and the most individual and unique implementation of it in the Helix).:001_cool:
Note Suwanchote
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How are you liking it overall?
constantine Tirintzis
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For those that are interested on vertical stabilization using the Serene and easyrig, with the Helix...test footage on mirror...and ....zoom .
shot with 16lb weight cage and camera on Gravity one mechanical gimbal to simulate your Epic and gimbal weight on easyrig..
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=816865148345698&set=vb.632815766750638&type=2&theater
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...ilization-for-all-gimbals-using-Easyrig/page2
shot with 16lb weight cage and camera on Gravity one mechanical gimbal to simulate your Epic and gimbal weight on easyrig..
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=816865148345698&set=vb.632815766750638&type=2&theater
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...ilization-for-all-gimbals-using-Easyrig/page2
Zeb B
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constantine Tirintzis
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Not sure it belongs here but a cute bit of footage
Hey Zeb, I posted it here for the Helix people who are interested in working with Easyrig and Serene to stabilise vertical motion.
Sorry but I didnt have a Helix. Its more to show the effect of the Serene and easyrig.
Hienle is also making his 4th axis adaptation for easyrig.
So thats the reason why..
Thanks for your kind words
kind regards
Terry VerHaar
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I am going to be more blunt than Elizabeth (Oh, what a surprise!).
I had my Helix for a fews days to play around with the balance but never powered it up because I lacked the right cable. Then I sent it back to Letus and it came back a few days later with some improvements and spiffs and I started to play with it. A few shots at rebalancing with different set-ups (experimenting, as Elizabeth suggests) and I got off some promising but shaky shots.
Hien then came through with a new profile and, combined with yet another iteration on balance, I got some footage that I thought to be exceptional. The footage itself is ugly as all hell visually, but the Helix performed beautifully. I am actually at the point where I am asking myself whether the slightest bit of barely noticeable "bob" at a few points in the footage, from my walking, is, or even should be, fixable from the software side or if I just have to get a little better at my technique. I am really not sure whether I can expect more from the tool.
But here is the thing. I am not about to post the footage here because it serves no purpose. I am not trying to win a competition, I am trying to master a tool. There are people here who have an axe to grind and will make ridiculous observations, no matter what the reality. And, there are a lot of looky-loues who have no idea what they want or how to get it with any tool. As for your obsession with the "mirror test," Les, step up and buy a Helix - or just wait until someone decides to appease you. As I said, there is nothing to be gained by feeding the sharks and the trolls. Because - and this is the "frank" part - I really don't care if you buy a Helix or not. Plenty of people have, and will, and they will soon be getting very good to excellent footage. You can get in early or you can wait.
So, I'll post the footage in the private forum at Letus so that I can work with fellow Helix users to collaboratively refine what we are doing. I am not worried about Letus selling these units because, in time, I believe they will own this market like they did the 35mm Adaptor market. Hien is a patient and persistent guy. He's not worried either. The whole competition thing makes about as much sense as the RED vs. Sony, PC vs. Mac, Coke vs. Pepsi; pure bull - and just serves to polarize people.
I hope that explanation helps you understand why at least some of us aren't doing a mirror test. As for me, as much as I love looking at myself, I don't expect to be shooting a lot of footage of myself, holding my Helix, in the mirror, in my day to day work. :smiley:
Zeb B
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Agreed Terry. Buy what you want and put it to work. If in doubt; demo all of them or rent. What works for Terry might not work for your style of shooting or project mission. They're all going to improve and they all exceed most of our talents. Remember: these 3 axis gimbals are only 1/2 of the motion issue. Your body, arms and technique are the other half. Even in silly "tests" in front of a mirror
Zeb B
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Oh yeah . . . loose that Side Handle. No need for that asymmetrical dead weight when Helix powers the RED.
Not sure when I would every use the mirror test arm motions in real life. Kinda like most of my college courses and tests - useless BS that seems to prove something abstract at the time. What matters now is for all of us to crowd source profiles for specific camera packages and to learn from each other. The way I currently see it in order of priority:
1. Technique and hacks (before unwanted motion reaches the gimbal)
2. Software tuning (an ongoing process)
3. Gimbal brand / design (mid frequency movement)
4. Lens Stabilization (high frequency vibration) - see this: http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/c...ultra-wide-zoom-lenses/ef-16-35mm-f-4l-is-usm
5. Post Process Stabilization (low frequency movement)
I'll bet that Canon IS lens would remove the High Freq vibration I had in the Nike spec ad. It's a combination of technique, equipment and workflow to get a smooth but analog looking result. No one device will accomplish the task.
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Elizabeth Lowrey
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I LOVE the Helix, not because I've shot anything with it. Heck, I haven't even powered on my camera with it mounted yet. But everything I have seen and felt from holding the rig in person vindicates my early judgment that this was the most original, elegant, refined gimbal design out there. The build quality is excellent. And my initial impressions of Hien as the kind of person I would want to do business with have grown and been validated many times over. I have NEVER bought a product of any kind in my life from a company that I was more impressed with in terms of customer relations. And when you add that to Hien's clear care and concern for achieving excellence in his field, I have no doubt that this gimbal will produce beautifully stabilized footage when I get it fully setup and begin to acquire good operator technique. (And since using it as a remote pan/tilt head on a crane was a big part of the draw for me of a gimbal in the first place, how the Helix performs in that area will ultimately be a proportionately large component of my overall assessment of its value,) So despite the very early times and lack of substantiation with actual shooting, I just have confidence that it's "all good" as they say.
Thanks posting about your experiments, Elizabeth! And good to hear that you're finding things easier. One thing that helped me massively when I was learning to balance gimbals was to understand where the COG is on each piece of gear in my rig (body, lens, QR plate, etc.) by rolling them on top of a pen placed on top of a table until I found the balancing point, and then slowly repeating the process as I added each new piece to the rig. Once you have all your pieces in place and learn those spots I think you'll find it's a lot easier to add bits and pieces and counterweight appropriately. As much as I hate reminding myself of the fact, at the end of the day this is all math, and it gets quicker with it over time.
I guess the thing that's confusing me and perhaps Ned as well is that it seems like mounting a red + lens on top of the Gimbal and shooting a mirror should be a relatively straight forward process (less than an hour), but if folks are busy tweaking their configurations than I will sit on my hands and wait with everyone else!
Good tips, David. Thanks for those. I had done a mental exercise along those lines, which is to start balancing just the camera and then guesstimate where locating an additional piece of hardware would be necessary to help achieve balance. There are so many possibilities!
Today I spent all day tracking down little bits of mounting hardware, finalizing a Nyrius Aries Pro purchase, a few accessories for that, etc., and then other commitments kept me from doing any real Helix work today. I'm tied up all morning tomorrow, but, hopefully by late afternoon tomorrow I can get back on it.
Terry VerHaar
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David - i didn't say anything about shutting conversation down. I simply explained why I wouldn't shoot it and wouldn't bother posting footage. You do as you'd like.
And, David, the "competition" reference is to another situation regarding someone who wants to make it such. Context, David, context.
And, David, the "competition" reference is to another situation regarding someone who wants to make it such. Context, David, context.
Constantine,
Either you or me, we should make a mount for the Serene that mount on the 2 ends of the 4th axis cross bar. It's a good concept Constantine. We can even bypass the 4th Axis and mount it somewhere on both handles of the 3 axis config that can be quickly released for the suitcase mode. What do you think?
Either you or me, we should make a mount for the Serene that mount on the 2 ends of the 4th axis cross bar. It's a good concept Constantine. We can even bypass the 4th Axis and mount it somewhere on both handles of the 3 axis config that can be quickly released for the suitcase mode. What do you think?
constantine Tirintzis
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Hello Hienle. thank you for the kind words.
For the 4th axis I was thinking that the best place would be a mount on your centre bearing in the middle of your 4th axis, that the easyrig hook, or another quick release type can directly connect there , and all problems solved.
Now to mount directly on your handles , over passing the 4th axis, it would be good if we can make an easy mount similar to the diagram I have sent you, Iam trying to think around your suggestion about your suitcase mode, but I would thought that, since you are hanging everything from easyrig, its better to go low mode just by using normal mode and easyrig string extension, since the camera can go much lower this way, as the handle below doesnt get in the way.
Lets take it off the board, and make some drawings, and see whats suitable, I will be glad to work with you on this, it looks easily done, and will help the Helix people for sure .
Kind regards
For the 4th axis I was thinking that the best place would be a mount on your centre bearing in the middle of your 4th axis, that the easyrig hook, or another quick release type can directly connect there , and all problems solved.
Now to mount directly on your handles , over passing the 4th axis, it would be good if we can make an easy mount similar to the diagram I have sent you, Iam trying to think around your suggestion about your suitcase mode, but I would thought that, since you are hanging everything from easyrig, its better to go low mode just by using normal mode and easyrig string extension, since the camera can go much lower this way, as the handle below doesnt get in the way.
Lets take it off the board, and make some drawings, and see whats suitable, I will be glad to work with you on this, it looks easily done, and will help the Helix people for sure .
Kind regards
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Sabyasachi Patra
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Lets not make it a juvenile manhood contest so that one has to desperately defend. I would suggest the mirror test to the users. Do it periodically and see how your gimbal tunings and/or ability of the gimbal via new firmware increase.
I feel Hien is honest and confident, and one doesn't need to defend the Letus Helix. Lets be objective and watch this gimbal grow. Look forward to Hien's mirror test.
I would suggest the mirror test to the users. Do it periodically and see how your gimbal tunings and/or ability of the gimbal via new firmware increase.I feel Hien is honest and confident, and one doesn't need to defend the Letus Helix. Lets be objective and watch this gimbal grow. Look forward to Hien's mirror test.