Letus Gimbal

[Peter Majtan]

It's tested and tried out and it was admitted that it is superior than the Ronin. Don't press me for the name, you would be surprised...

I like surprises! Do share...

But really Hienle? All you can do now is to post negative comments about your competition? And like this - with an "anonymous" source?
What happened to you man? I used to have a respect for you and your posts. Sad...

Anyway - here is an invitation to you guys...:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?119350-3-axis-gimbal-open-challenge

Picture - or in this case a moving shot - is worth 1000 words...

:sifone: Peter

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Thanks, Andreas, for a very informative post. It is very helpful to understand more about the inner workings and the heritage of the various stabilizer systems. I am new to the world of gimbal-based stabilizers and made my decision to invest in one on the basis of what I think to be a superior design and on the approach the company has taken to support and develop it with is early customers. I am very excited about the potential as things develop.

Hein, I know you would rather spend your scarce time working on the Helix rather than responding here but, as an early customer, I do appreciate your contribution to the discussion. No one can bring the detail and accuracy to bear better than the guy who makes the decisions. I think it is important for people to understand the differences among these various designs and the way in which the respective companies develop their products and view the longer term development process. Unfortunately, as we have seen, without actual facts, erroneous assumptions can create a sense of reality that is simple false.

Peter - Hien posts a very long and detailed description of his product to clear up the inaccurate statements that others have made and all you can do is snip out a single statement and suggest he is doing nothing but criticize his competition. You are quite desperate in all of this, aren't you? Hien is one of the most open and enthusiastic - and smart - company presidents that anyone could know. Criticize me if you want as I am just a new customer with a lot of passion about my experience with the Helix so far - and a whole lot of confidence. But I don't know much and I am willing to learn. No other company would support my efforts the way Letus has. And he is doing it personally with me as well as many other early adopters. So, Peter, have some respect for someone who has way more to add to this discussion than you do. And, Hien has shared with me the source of the statement he is referencing and, trust me, you don't want him to post it here. Good luck with your popularity contest.

 

[PC Greene]

Agreed Terry.

Letus is the bravest, most responsive, most customer centric company I've every had the pleasure to work with or purchase from...and I'm under the impression they're not that terribly big a company. How they're managing to find the right balance of design, speed in development, and still find time to be so dedicated to their customers and ongoing refinements is rather amazing.

*everyone* else in the business could and should take note...these guys are going places...

Thank you,

PCG

Thanks, Andreas, for a very informative post. It is very helpful to understand more about the inner workings and the heritage of the various stabilizer systems. I am new to the world of gimbal-based stabilizers and made my decision to invest in one on the basis of what I think to be a superior design and on the approach the company has taken to support and develop it with is early customers. I am very excited about the potential as things develop.

Hein, I know you would rather spend your scarce time working on the Helix rather than responding here but, as an early customer, I do appreciate your contribution to the discussion. No one can bring the detail and accuracy to bear better than the guy who makes the decisions. I think it is important for people to understand the differences among these various designs and the way in which the respective companies develop their products and view the longer term development process. Unfortunately, as we have seen, without actual facts, erroneous assumptions can create a sense of reality that is simple false.

Peter - Hien posts a very long and detailed description of his product to clear up the inaccurate statements that others have made and all you can do is snip out a single statement and suggest he is doing nothing but criticize his competition. You are quite desperate in all of this, aren't you? Hien is one of the most open and enthusiastic - and smart - company presidents that anyone could know. Criticize me if you want as I am just a new customer with a lot of passion about my experience with the Helix so far - and a whole lot of confidence. But I don't know much and I am willing to learn. No other company would support my efforts the way Letus has. And he is doing it personally with me as well as many other early adopters. So, Peter, have some respect for someone who has way more to add to this discussion than you do. And, Hien has shared with me the source of the statement he is referencing and, trust me, you don't want him to post it here. Good luck with your popularity contest.

 

[PC Greene]

Our unit was jittery out of the box as well, but I expect to get a break from shooting to get balanced / tweaked next week and expect it to be fine.

That said, the software is clearly Version 1, and I am concerned by the complexity of recallibrating the sensors should that be necessary as it's a somewhat involved process although not impossible.

It's my hope and expectation that Letus will update software after hardware is rolling out smoothly and with luck, offer us auto set up and an easier process for sensor recallibration.

Thank you,

PCG

I've had mine for almost 2 weeks - I would say it is still BETA level in terms of those looking for something "plug and play" out of the box ready to shoot. Similar to working with a red on early firmware.

It's not hard to balance but the motors were not configured out of the box well on mine, creating a lot of vibration.

 

[PC Greene]

Yes...steadicam is TM'd term...so is Kleenex Xerox and many others.

Letus has designed, machined and overnighted a 15.8mm post mount for the Proline Raven an astonishing *12 hours* from my inquiry.

Sorry but I'm quite happy with our 12k Raven arm / gimbal and don't have 50k to pay for TM'd name...perhaps someday that will make sense.

Not saying "small or foreign knockoffs" are same level of customer service, weight capacity etc, but this space is growing rapidly and options only help us all.

If Tiffen really feels they're being infringed upon I'm sure they'll litigate...


Thank you,

Like I said,
There are essentially just a few true standard sizes for arm posts that have been established and are/should be universally observed by manufacturers of "steadicam-like" rigs. Unfortunately, many of the knock offs and newer foreign offerings do not follow these standards which is unfortunate. The word "Steadicam" is rightfully owned by Tiffen by the way.
The sizes listed for the fourth axis will/should fit any of the true standard arm posts from Tiffen, PRO, XCS, Artemis, Innocinema and any others who are following the established standards. If you bought a less expensive knock off (and yes, they are knock offs because there are still many internationally patented parts that cannot be duplicated legally) or even something very well made from a foreign company that does not use these standards, you may be out of luck. A sleeve adapter might be fine but you may damage the bearing in your fourth axis in the long run by not having a proper fit.

Grayson Grant Austin, SOC

 

[Zeb B]

I like surprises! Do share...

But really Hienle? All you can do now is to post negative comments about your competition? And like this - with an "anonymous" source?
What happened to you man? I used to have a respect for you and your posts. Sad...

Anyway - here is an invitation to you guys...:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?119350-3-axis-gimbal-open-challenge

Picture - or in this case a moving shot - is worth 1000 words...

:sifone: Peter

You are clearly a compromised source of information since all you do now is patrol this forum and bully those who dare question Ronin or DJI.

Hein is a man of character and accomplishment so deserves respect as he attempts to provide all RED Users with a unique and innovative product. He doesn't have the built in advantages of Chinese labor, material or environmental compliance costs as your sponsor DJI - instead he must try to compete with all the economic odds against him. I admire and respect anyone who is doing with Hein is doing.

You have stated "I'm looking to buy a Helix for my Steadi" - clearly you are working directly with DJI on a Steadi solution so use this future purchase front to take a shit on this thread. You are just DJI's attack dog doing their dirty work of marginalizing competition through social media. The fact they have you as their official point man tells me volumes about their corporate ethics and value system.

 

[scott devitte]

I like surprises! Do share...

But really Hienle? All you can do now is to post negative comments about your competition? And like this - with an "anonymous" source?
What happened to you man? I used to have a respect for you and your posts. Sad...

Anyway - here is an invitation to you guys...:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?119350-3-axis-gimbal-open-challenge

Picture - or in this case a moving shot - is worth 1000 words...

:sifone: Peter

Hey Peter.

I appreciate your enthusiasm, please allow Hienle his.

There is nothing sad about a proud papa. Remember Letus is very much a family operation and he doesn't have lawyers parsing everything he says.

I have one of the first Helix and realized immediately that It was going to be tweak city. Birthing, toothing, adolescence, maturity.

Being a lover of industrial design, for me the first principal of good design is a sense of proportion. That is what struck me at NAB about the Helix and what I got in the package from Letus.

Holding it is natural but complex- I feel that eventually this will become an extension of ones senses and internal balance. As I learn to tweak the motors and software and mechanical balance I understand that I have to rework internally, and habitualize what ever physical behavior is necessary to support suspending a sensor stabilized in space to frame a light painting.

I think we have to get past "tripod","hand held", "shoulder mount" etc and think more of gut/shoulder/arm/wrist/handle articulation of the tip of our brush which is the sensor/lens. How do we engage the action in front of us to create a moving painting? What do we need to train, practice, and rehearse, to be able to seamlessly "sensor dance" the performance?

I too find kind of fun the "challenge" going down, but when I look at the way that you have that Ronin rigged it looks sloppy, when I look at your footage it looks sloppy, anything but balanced. I really question the bulldozer approach. These are tools that will will give us finesse and delicacy, it might not happen overnight.

Though I appreciate the generosity, enthusiasm and willingness to experiment you and Zeb and Ketch exhibit, I question self aggrandizing the "gimbal wars" and not one of you has put up anything remotely professional. But, there sure is a lot of battling and or backslapping over who gets what recognition or sponsorship.

Hienle actually designed, and produced something. I want him in the workshop tweaking his creation, not being drawn into this ego challenge going down.

 

[hienle]

The patent is related to the electronic stabilizer that's using the gyro directly mounted on the arm, bypassing the sled David

Thanks for the clarifications, Hien! Any ETA on the Red footage that Sean alluded to the other day? Personally eager to see something properly tuned up so I feel comfortable pulling the trigger.



Curious, has this patent actually been granted? Because people have been directly mounting stabilizers to vest + arm combos for years now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M80mQcdNusk -- or are you talking about something different?

 

[Sabyasachi Patra]

Hein, I know you would rather spend your scarce time working on the Helix rather than responding here but, as an early customer, I do appreciate your contribution to the discussion. No one can bring the detail and accuracy to bear better than the guy who makes the decisions. I think it is important for people to understand the differences among these various designs and the way in which the respective companies develop their products and view the longer term development process. Unfortunately, as we have seen, without actual facts, erroneous assumptions can create a sense of reality that is simple false.

I think it is good that Hien posts here so that we directly hear from the horses mouth without any distortions. Look forward to continued improvements in Helix as well as the "long wheel base" version of the Helix to handle longer cameras and long lenses.

PS: Waiting to see some good footage

 

[Elizabeth Lowrey]

My Helix arrived yesterday. It's daunting to look at . . . to realize how much I have to learn about this very new and evolving technology. But seeing it "in the flesh" also reinforces and amplifies the one word that best described my impressions of the design even with respect to the less refined prototype at NAB: ELEGANCE.

Maybe the one good thing about being the only visible female in these threads is that I am not inclined to allow technology discussions or comparisons to devolve into the peeing contests that some seem so anxious to impose. Maybe it's my ability to hold that paradox -- that technology IS inherently competitive and that invidious comparisons are part of that while also allowing that people have entire ranges of personal, subjective values that make one product more appealing than another -- that helps me avoid that temptation. Maybe it's my relentless dedication as a spiritual seeker to looking for the universal good in contexts where it may be difficult to find. I'm only certain that I'm incredibly enthusiastic to be a Helix owner despite expectations that I will have many moments of frustration in the coming weeks as I try to learn how to balance, calibrate, and use it in various configurations (e.g., handheld, on a crane, etc.) and to implement protocols for rigging and getting the camera on and off it efficiently. I'm extraordinarily reassured to know that, like all current Helix owners, I have been invited to set up one-on-one video conferencing sessions to help me fine tune my Helix for my needs with the man that designed it. The importance of that kind of service and personal relationship with the product originator is, for me, priceless.

I intend that the rest of my discussions here and at the private Helix forum be dedicated to swapping tips with other Helix (and general gimbal) owners and to sharing my own footage when it's related to help on a particular issue or when I feel that it represents a sufficiently mature understanding of how to use the product. That may be a month from now or six months from now. I have no stake in how that timing fits in with the gimbal games, but I'll offer it for whatever it may be worth to others at that time.

Until then, happy shooting to all, with or without gimbal.

 

[Peter Majtan]

There is nothing sad about a proud papa...

Agreed. I have a 3-year old and a 9-year old. But I don't go around and say how ugly or dumb the neibor's kid is...
Zeb's above post is the personification of what is the real problem here. All he can do is post lies, attacks and insults...
Instead of focusing to test and review their product - they focus on bashing the competition on every turn.
It's interesting how many of the competitors have shit to say about the Ronin - yet the Ronin (and to some extent the Movi) are the only ones that have shown any footage shot with actual RED cameras. Go figure...

As long as they keep attacking others instead of focusing on their own product - I will go to "patrol & defend" (LOL)
How is it fair for them to slander and bash - but when I confront such an actions - I am playing ego game?

Please go and find a single derogatory or bashing comment I have posted about any of the competing products...
Because I can points too many to count just from the Helix camp about Ronin.
Why do they need to do that?

I guess we all know the answer to that question...
Hence my open challenge thread...

:sifone: Peter

 

[Sinh Tran]

you guys are like gang bangers fighting over streets you don't even own.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Personally, I admire Hien for his courage, and willingness to crowd source his ground-breaking gimbal. His methodology and transparency won me over, and led me to put a deposit down. Hien's commitment to INNOVATION and DISCOVERY...his daring to re-imagine how a gimbal should LOOK and BEHAVE...is electrifying.

The comparisons to RED's early efforts with the RED ONE are apt. Innovation by it's nature is disruptive, so this heated climate feels natural (and expected).

I'm not worried which gimbal will be BETTER. Im confident all of them will be GOOD. But Hien's design and approach to the Helix wins me over every time (just like RED's 4K Raw approach won me over years ago). The Helix can do things other gimbal's can't, and Hien's also taking a risk other companies aren't (new designs by necessity...often require more growing pains).

I'm inspired by Hien's bravery, and happy to let him mature the Helix into a ground-breaking product. Big ideas often begin small, and faith is usually the most important currency. To that end, I'm happy to give Hien all the faith he needs.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Well said, Nick. Thank you.http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

 

[SeanBrown]

Hi Sean, looking forward to getting mine. BTW, off-topic, I like your website. It's a nice clean design. If you don't mind me asking, did you do it yourself/designer or is it via online template?

Thanks peter! It's a template that I edited.

 

[Les Dittert]

So....
Just wondering if someone has attempted tuning the PID variables with a RED camera ( heavy ) mounted ?
I'm am holding off purchasing my R.U. unit until I see it work somewhat well.
The mirror test is all I need to see. No soundtrack. No Chicks. Just shooting a mirror at 24fps.

Has it really been a week since this is out in users hands and still no tuned system ? Did I miss something ?
It's not like the Basecam board software is in beta guys. What's going on ? Is there a problem tuning with the heavy camera instead of GH4 and gopro, what Basecam is used to being set up for ?

 

[Sabyasachi Patra]

I'm extraordinarily reassured to know that, like all current Helix owners, I have been invited to set up one-on-one video conferencing sessions to help me fine tune my Helix for my needs with the man that designed it. The importance of that kind of service and personal relationship with the product originator is, for me, priceless.

I agree that one-on-one video conferencing with Hien would be a big big help and will also become a USP of this gimbal. However, I would like to know after this one-on-one is the learning curve so steep that one needs months? Look forward to your footage whenever you feel comfortable to share, as the aesthetics of a lady is so different from us guys.

 

[Elizabeth Lowrey]

I agree that one-on-one video conferencing with Hien would be a big big help and will also become a USP of this gimbal. However, I would like to know after this one-on-one is the learning curve so steep that one needs months? Look forward to your footage whenever you feel comfortable to share, as the aesthetics of a lady is so different from us guys.

LOL, I spent my first day experimenting with different hardware combinations to achieve balance. Just deciding whether or not to do some kind of quick release on the camera bottom is a major decision because ANYTHING with mass and volume can make a big difference in balance, even the height and weight of a plate. There's one intermediate piece of hardware I'm considering that will cost me about $300 but that is very light and low profile that I THINK would work well for this application by allowing me to quick release from the Helix and then go straight to my existing ARRI standard dovetail on the tripod but without the necessity of reattaching the studio baseplate. So that's something I'm considering (and had in fact been considering it for use on my slider too.) And then of course I can forget about quick release altogether and resign myself to screwing and unscrewing the camera to the Helix.

As a one person operation with an event videography background who's only just now trying to get into real film work, I'm probably atypical to most users in these parts. I keep my camera mostly built in a "quick draw" case, and I mean built with a lens, shotgun microphone and a full size XLR box, plus studio baseplate, rods, and mattebox. The reason for that is to keep lots of stuff in one compact case and as put together as possible. The downsides are weight (the case is now 52 pounds!), and there's still a lot of detaching and reattaching to put the camera on different platforms. When I worked on my first feature early this year, I quickly tired of constantly changing plates on the bottom of my camera to go between tripod, slider, shoulder mount, hi-hat, etc.

So I'm not just trying to find some arbitrary arrangement that will allow me to balance the camera on the Helix but am trying to think through the absolute most efficient ways to go between different setups and utilize what hardware I can as counterbalance in place of the dead weights on the "antennas" that serve as final fine tuning weights. And that requires a LOT of experimentation. I could easily see myself spending 2-3 more days on just this aspect, though I will try to get hold of my OCD before that happens (you should have seen how long it took me to customize my various cases!) All obsessiveness aside, there is the practical desire to put in my time now and (hopefully) save a lot of pain and aggravation down the road.

There's also the fact that I have not even downloaded the Basecam software or begun to look at it. This is all brand new stuff to me, and I won't be bothering Hien until I at least have gotten familiar with the software.

After one day of just messing with balance, though, I can say it's pretty cool to have your camera's optical center matched with the spatial center (and center of gravity) of the roll axis. Long before I ever heard of the Helix (probably before there was a Helix of the 3 axis variety), I had envisioned a shot for my own glacially progressing documentary film that involved a 180 degree dutch roll as the camera moves parallel to the ground (with lens pointed down perpendicular to the ground.) I was thinking it would be prohibitively expensive, requiring one of those Hydra something or other type telescoping deals with the massive heads. But I actually think I could now do it with the Helix and some crude kind of dollying or telescoping boom, not only because the Helix will offer remote pan/tilt/roll control and stabilization but because roll and lens share the same center. But first things first.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Elizabeth - Sounds like your journey is going pretty much the way mine is. The one thing I would say right now is that I am definitely going to go the route of a QR plate. I think its just too inconvenient to keep the camera bolted to the camera platform. I am hoping to find something low profile and lightweight. I am going to try a Letus but Hien just may have to design something new! http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

 

[PC Greene]

Hey Les,

I feel bad not posting footage yet as I'm fortunate to have nearly a year under my belt with M10, but Helix arrived right in the midst of our busiest shoot month this year, and getting comfortable with a new gimbal set up is at least a full day or two of testing config & software.
MoVI took me 2 full days including fiddling with power, wireless vid etc, & while Zebs bicycle test was great, I think there's also some concern from new users about making sure their handling skills are practiced enough they (nor the gimbal) will be judged harshly. We really need helix on set this weekend & so I'll make a big effort to get something up for everyone as we test.

Physical balance+ accessories config + software learning / testing + time to learn how to use any gimbal for new users = more time than you might think. Soon...

Thank you,

So....
Just wondering if someone has attempted tuning the PID variables with a RED camera ( heavy ) mounted ?
I'm am holding off purchasing my R.U. unit until I see it work somewhat well.
The mirror test is all I need to see. No soundtrack. No Chicks. Just shooting a mirror at 24fps.

Has it really been a week since this is out in users hands and still no tuned system ? Did I miss something ?
It's not like the Basecam board software is in beta guys. What's going on ? Is there a problem tuning with the heavy camera instead of GH4 and gopro, what Basecam is used to being set up for ?