Lenses stolen from baggage - British Airways say 'tough, not our problem'.

[Brian F Kobylarz]

I've just been on an amazing shoot in Kenya but when I came to unpack I discovered that my two Red zooms had been stolen from my checked baggage on the Nairobi to London flight. When I phoned British Airways they said that they don't cover 'high value items'. In effect if your underpants are stolen they'll compensate you. If your lenses are stolen they won't.

They suggested that all such items should be carried as hand luggage, which is hardly possible as the camera and batteries already need to be carried and the limits on hand baggage are getting tighter all the time.

I'm deeply pissed off - BA are supposed to be a premium airline and my feeling is that they should be responsible for baggage once it's handed over to them. Anyone have similar experiences with BA or others.

Mark,

I've been burned by airlines too. Biggest loss was a Betacam SP camera about 20 years ago. Even double cased with what I thought was adequate shock protection between did not prevent US Air from apparently dropping it out of the cargo door to the pavement below (on end). Cracked the entire frame. Full and complete loss.

What I learned from that experience:
First, the same info about undeclared "high value items" that you ran into.
My insurance company put up a good fight, but in the end I received a pittance in compensation after a deductible.

Second, most carriers have specific exclusions about fragile and valuable items such as electronics and cameras.
Simply put, they don't want to accept the responsibility for an item where there is a increased potential for fraud. Camera broken? Take it on your next flight and file a claim… Since there is no inspection of it's condition - or if it was even packaged - they are at risk for rampant abuse of the system. Can't blame them for that.

Third, there are just too many news reports of airline cargo handlers that turn out to be dishonest thieves. I'll get into serious political trouble if I begin stating what should happen to them…
(a hint is that it involves use of a rusty exact knife)

For everyone - the most important thing I learned back then is to know your own insurance. It turned out that I had different levels of coverage for damage or loss depending on when it happened. One level if the equipment was under my control, half that level if the equipment was in transit.
Everyone should check out their insurance carefully to see if this exclusion / condition applies to their policy.


OK. What I have adopted as a standard practice (when possible):

Cameras, lenses, computer are carry-on items. (Knapsack has a pouch for the computer)
Always carry at least one battery and media to prove functionality at security / check-in.

Items that are checked include tripods - with clothing and an accessory duffle filling the voids.

For a large shoot, I make use of Air Cargo. Makes sense to establish a relationship with a known carrier - they can arrange pick-up, drop-off and everything in between. Much more secure than the airlines. Plus, it's not bad when you land, rent a car and drive to your location to find everything there. Call them when you are finished and pick it up on arrival home. They handle tons of valuable equipment everyday unlike passenger aircraft. A different breed.

I also make good use of Fed-Ex. Often, I will ship a pelican case with my extra batteries and accessories First or Priority to the location I am staying at.
Transporting fragile equipment is second nature for them - plus, adding appropriate insurance is easy .
Often, it turns out that the total cost is about the same as an excess baggage charge.

If I'm leapfrogging cities, I treat it like a road show or take a second unit approach. Two accessory kits. While one is in use, the other is in transit to the next location.

When working major metropolitan areas, you can often rent the AKS such as extra batteries, lighting and tripods for less than it would cost to ship them.
Hand carry the essentials and high value gear while using local resources is smart. Calling a resource in advance and establishing a relationship can help bail you of of an unforeseen predicament.

I know there is some comfort when everything is traveling with you, but personal experience has demonstrated it's actually a higher risk.
The alternatives may not be ideal for every travel scenario, but certainly worth considering.

Sorry for the loss - hope you find some relief...

 

[Nick Fury]

sorry for your misfortune, mark... you need to file a claim asap, your insurance company may see it being worth pressing the airline and/or local authorities. ask your agent whether you should contact those officials or if they will. you might want to post a reward or at least put the word out that the items are stolen. yeah, it sucks... but you're going to have to get the ball rolling with bigger guns if you want to rouse up any interest from the airline. they can't/don't care about you until it costs them something.

What do Insurance carriers require, in general, for such airline/baggage handler losses? A police report is usually required in UD. Anyone with experience, with say, Athos, for this type of scenario?

Thank you very much

Fury

 

[Florian Stadler]

I have flown hundreds of flights with camera & lenses in cargo. So far I have had 1 incident - my Pro Primes were spilled onto the Tarmac. Delta wrote me a check of 20K for the damage. When I reported the incident to my insurance company they did not expect Delta to cover much of the loss, but they did.

 

[Adrian Weinbrecht]

Hi Mark


What a bummer, we lost some luggage recently travelling back from NYC to Heathrow T5 and we were travelling with a Carnet.


Luckily the bag turned up 2 weeks later. I was convinced it was lost. My assistant phoned the airline twice every day. I appreciate your circumstances are different as you got your bag back without the lenses.


Also because we were travelling with a Carnet I think we had a pretty good claim against the airline as we were able to prove the declared value of the gear as it was inspected by customs officers on both sides of the pond. So in future maybe fly with a Carnet?


In regards to carry on luggage, we usually try to get our clients to pay for business class seats as the airlines give greater allowances and tend to be more lenient. If this isn't possible because of budgets, I've often managed to get an extra assistant or 2 along on shoots just so I can use their carry on allowance. Often an additional economy ticket is much cheaper then the extra cost of a business class seat for me.


We we own several Think Tank Airport international roller cases, they are brilliant for carry on. We load them up to the brim with lenses, cameras etc. They don't look like camera bags, my assistants are all briefed to make them look light weight, occasionally you'll be asked to show any hand luggage. So when picking them up we try to make it appear effortless. Australia is possibly the worst country, airport staff love the rules, they are anything but laid back. (I'm Australian)

See if any of your contacts in Kenya can maybe get to the Airport and offer a reward? This may prove to be a cheaper option ?

good luck

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I also make good use of Fed-Ex. Often, I will ship a pelican case with my extra batteries and accessories First or Priority to the location I am staying at.

Just a warning that if you ship > 90wh batteries by air (FedEx, UPS whoever) you are liable for over $50k in penalties unless you fill out a hazardous materials form and are a licensed haz-mat shipper.

 

[Brian F Kobylarz]

Just a warning that if you ship > 90wh batteries by air (FedEx, UPS whoever) you are liable for over $50k in penalties unless you fill out a hazardous materials form and are a licensed haz-mat shipper.

Good point Gavin!

There was an entire thread on this subject - well worth repeating.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...o-for-those-flying-with-lithium-ion-batteries

One of the reasons I still keep a few NiCad's in the inventory. Poor weight to power ratio by today's standards, but you can ship or fly most places with them.
I understand some countries - especially European - now consider them a hazardous waste.
Another reason to rent on location when practical.

 

[Chad Lancaster]

They have those luggage gps trackers, I haven't really looked into them since I don't fly much but might be worth it.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Maybe in First Class but for us flying Coach I would not count on this. In Asia some airlines have dedicated staff and scales outside of the gate to weigh your carry-on to see if it exceeds . . . wait for it . . . 15LBS!!

The tiger women that run these scales don't care what you have in the bag or even speak English very well. If it's over the limit then it is checked at the gate. Period. Raising hell is a great way to miss your flight and get on a No Fly list. The 15lb logic is that the stewardesses on some of these Asian flights are 4' 8", weigh 83lbs so cannot be expected to assist with heavy overhead bags. Private airlines can, and do, set their own weight limits. Check their website before traveling and don't count on a loud voice changing their policy.

Better idea: Bring a safari photog vest that has a dozen pockets in it. There is no weight limit to what you can WEAR. Once on the plane . . . put the gear back into the camera bag. EZ PEEZY

Another gotcha: You fly out on Delta with a 70lb / 3 checked bag / 40lb carry on rule. They connect through a different Sister airline over in 3rd Worldville that has different rules. OK to fly in since they have to respect the rules of Delta (except for carry-ons). On your return trip, it is the Sister airline that sets the rules - not Delta. You are stuck and might have to ship equipment back. Check the rules of all airlines you will be on - not just the first leg. An obvious example of this would be traveling into Alaska or some other back country. You cannot expect to have a bush plane carry your Delta approved gear load.

Unfortunately my First Class flight days are gone... At list for now...

Yet I continue to fly with the same amount of gear...


While there is a limit for "Carry On" a "Camera Bag" still qualifies under such "Name" and not as a "Carry On" there for there is no rule applicable to the weight limit, as it is well known that cameras kits can be very heavy...

Of course I do not mean to rase Hell... Always respectfully insist that the "Camera Bag" is NOT qualifiable by regulation as a "Carry On" but as a "Camera Bag" and there for the weight limit does not apply to this bag.

Again, I have only got in to issues only few times, two of which required the attention of the Head Host and the Captain... Both times resolved positively...

And yes, I was also told once that it would be best to leave the heavier bag under the seat if it fit... But of course it doesn't... So always goes on top and has fit till now in every airline top space, even in th smaller interconnecting US, European, Latin America and Asian flights.


I stress this point as it is truly stressful to lose gear do to Checked in Luggage theft...

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Hello Ketch,

I didn't know there was a separate label for luggages as "Camera Bag" do you have any documentation showing this regulation?

Thanks

Pat

 

[Zeb B]

Unfortunately my First Class flight days are gone... At list for now...

Yet I continue to fly with the same amount of gear...


While there is a limit for "Carry On" a "Camera Bag" still qualifies under such "Name" and not as a "Carry On" there for there is no rule applicable to the weight limit, as it is well known that cameras kits can be very heavy...

Of course I do not mean to rase Hell... Always respectfully insist that the "Camera Bag" is NOT qualifiable by regulation as a "Carry On" but as a "Camera Bag" and there for the weight limit does not apply to this bag.

Again, I have only got in to issues only few times, two of which required the attention of the Head Host and the Captain... Both times resolved positively...

And yes, I was also told once that it would be best to leave the heavier bag under the seat if it fit... But of course it doesn't... So always goes on top and has fit till now in every airline top space, even in th smaller interconnecting US, European, Latin America and Asian flights.


I stress this point as it is truly stressful to lose gear do to Checked in Luggage theft...

Never heard of Camera Gear being exempt from any rules. That would be great! To be clear: we are not taking about "regulations" as in the FAA - we are talking about "policy" which is set by the individual airlines as they see fit. There are no International Regulations or committee that controls carry-on limits. I would be curious where Delta, American, Jet Star etc has in their stated carry-on policy an exemption for camera gear. I have never seen that so please post links so I can print it out and carry it with me.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Never heard of Camera Gear being exempt from any rules.

Most countries follow the international ban on large lithium ion batteries in the cargo hold. You can hold your camera "hostage' with batteries. Pack all of your bricks with your camera and then when they say that the bag can't go into the cabin you just say it's against the law to check it due to the batteries. They will then often put it in a coat locker for you if it really doesn't fit.

As always be respectful, helpful and apologetic for the trouble it might pose to them. They aren't looking for a fight. You aren't looking for a fight--we're just usually both trapped between competing and contradictory regulations. But in my experience once they understand that you aren't doing it to be a self entitled dick, and you honestly aren't allowed to check the bag they're very creative and accommodating.

Batteries are most of my camera bag weight. If it was safe to check them I would happily do so and replace their space with glass.

 

[Zeb B]

Most countries follow the international ban on large lithium ion batteries in the cargo hold. You can hold your camera "hostage' with batteries. Pack all of your bricks with your camera and then when they say that the bag can't go into the cabin you just say it's against the law to check it due to the batteries. They will then often put it in a coat locker for you if it really doesn't fit.

As always be respectful, helpful and apologetic for the trouble it might pose to them. They aren't looking for a fight. You aren't looking for a fight--we're just usually both trapped between competing and contradictory regulations.

I get the ban on batteries international regulation. I am looking for links to this unlimited weight Camera Gear carry-on exemption. Would be real handy to have printed out since I cannot count on my being able to charm or bully the gate attendant with any reliability. If I have a printed document then that would not be necessary since the rules are in my favor.

 

[Ruff]

Sorry for your loss. The bigger issue is that if they can take things from your checked luggage, then of course they can also put things into the same bags.

Not only is this a concern for illegal drugs and so on. But also what about even more dangerous and harmful items?

Makes a sham of the 'security theatre' that we all undertake every time we fly.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Makes a sham of the 'security theatre' that we all undertake every time we fly.

Last time a Leatherman got through the security check...

The owner was happy but got me skeptical...

Pat

 

[Brian F Kobylarz]

Never heard of Camera Gear being exempt from any rules. That would be great! To be clear: we are not taking about "regulations" as in the FAA - we are talking about "policy" which is set by the individual airlines as they see fit. There are no International Regulations or committee that controls carry-on limits. I would be curious where Delta, American, Jet Star etc has in their stated carry-on policy an exemption for camera gear. I have never seen that so please post links so I can print it out and carry it with me.

Actually, it is true. However, Ketch is using the wrong terminology - forget "camera bag".

It is not well publicized for good reason - it would lead to abuse.

How does it work?
First, you need to carry proof that specifically identifies you as a representative of a network or local television broadcasting company or a commercial filmmaking company.

The exemption covers cameras, film, video, lighting, and sound equipment.

Media cameras are exempt from the sizing box restriction imposed on other carryon luggage, and, if carried onboard, must be stowed in accordance with FAA safety regulations. If the camera is to be secured in a seat, however, a ticket must be purchased for that seat.

The set charges used to be $ 50 per case - In 2013 most airlines raised it to $ 75. A few are still at fifty bucks.
International is a different rate.
Identify yourself at check-in. I've done advance calls - it helps.

An interesting aspect is that media equipment will not be assessed oversized or overweight charges. It's that flat rate.
And you may check (not carry on) up to 40 cases if memory serves me correctly.

They can still refuse a large quantity of equipment - had several cases bounced off commercial to air cargo once - luckily, they made it to my destination in time.



Caveats:
Do not pack any personal or non-industry related items in with the media cases - you can be disqualified.
If your business cards, media ID or commercial film production does not meet with their standards, you may be in for a long conversation.
Commercial cases that are labeled to match the company ID help prove that you are what you say you are.
If you are traveling light, it may still be practical to check as normal baggage as the rate may be lower.


That said - a point I would like to insert into the discussion. There are very good reasons why heavy camera bags and/or cases should not be brought on board any more than is absolutely necessary. When overweight items are stored in the cabin, they need to either fit under the seat or in the overhead bin.
It is not unheard of for the overhead bins to pop open when the plane hits turbulence. I've seen it happen.
It is only using common sense to realize that a 40 to 50 pound backpack or case becomes an item that can cause serious injury should it fall on a passenger during flight.

The next time someone thinks of putting an overweight case in the overhead, ask someone you know to get on a stepladder and drop it on your head.
Then consider that is the potential impact you will cause to an innocent passenger. It has the potential of causing paralysis - perhaps even killing someone.
If you are going to bring equipment as a carryon, one case on the floor should be your limit. Accidents happen - make it safe.
Nuff said...

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Bingo!!

Thanks Brian... That is exactly to what I am referring to... Just only have the time to do very short posts...



PS: No to worry... My heavier Back Pack, has never fallen, nor will it ever fall on any one... I am always ever so careful to place it properly overhead and take it down after the plain has fully come to a stop and the passenger seating below it has already got up...

 

[Mark Andersen]

I know that this is unhelpful at this late juncture, but I've found airlines to be very lenient with cinematographers and photographers when it comes to hand luggage allowances.
Do you have insurance?

This is true, in fact some airlines will give you film production status and actually let you carry and check more than usual. That said, I always carry my kit when flying, that's why I have made some effort to create a very small package in those situations, if I need to bring more I'll have an assistant travel with me and they will carry stuff too.

 

[Nick Fury]

Assistant Traveler available here...

Thank you very much

Fury

 

[Zeb B]

Actually, it is true. However, Ketch is using the wrong terminology - forget "camera bag".

It is not well publicized for good reason - it would lead to abuse.

How does it work?
First, you need to carry proof that specifically identifies you as a representative of a network or local television broadcasting company or a commercial filmmaking company.

The exemption covers cameras, film, video, lighting, and sound equipment.

Media cameras are exempt from the sizing box restriction imposed on other carryon luggage, and, if carried onboard, must be stowed in accordance with FAA safety regulations. If the camera is to be secured in a seat, however, a ticket must be purchased for that seat.

The set charges used to be $ 50 per case - In 2013 most airlines raised it to $ 75. A few are still at fifty bucks.
International is a different rate.
Identify yourself at check-in. I've done advance calls - it helps.

An interesting aspect is that media equipment will not be assessed oversized or overweight charges. It's that flat rate.
And you may check (not carry on) up to 40 cases if memory serves me correctly.

They can still refuse a large quantity of equipment - had several cases bounced off commercial to air cargo once - luckily, they made it to my destination in time.



Caveats:
Do not pack any personal or non-industry related items in with the media cases - you can be disqualified.
If your business cards, media ID or commercial film production does not meet with their standards, you may be in for a long conversation.
Commercial cases that are labeled to match the company ID help prove that you are what you say you are.
If you are traveling light, it may still be practical to check as normal baggage as the rate may be lower.


That said - a point I would like to insert into the discussion. There are very good reasons why heavy camera bags and/or cases should not be brought on board any more than is absolutely necessary. When overweight items are stored in the cabin, they need to either fit under the seat or in the overhead bin.
It is not unheard of for the overhead bins to pop open when the plane hits turbulence. I've seen it happen.
It is only using common sense to realize that a 40 to 50 pound backpack or case becomes an item that can cause serious injury should it fall on a passenger during flight.

The next time someone thinks of putting an overweight case in the overhead, ask someone you know to get on a stepladder and drop it on your head.
Then consider that is the potential impact you will cause to an innocent passenger. It has the potential of causing paralysis - perhaps even killing someone.
If you are going to bring equipment as a carryon, one case on the floor should be your limit. Accidents happen - make it safe.
Nuff said...

Links or it doesn't exist

Oh and . . . heavy objects to the head can kill innocent people:
http://www.airsafenews.com/2009/06/i...mays-dies.html

 

[D Anderson]

Links or it doesn't exist

Oh and . . . heavy objects to the head can kill innocent people:
http://www.airsafenews.com/2009/06/i...mays-dies.html

ZEBB - the article says it was his him medication that killed him. And they don't mean his medication fell on his head. The meds triggered a heart attack.