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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Lens Choice

A

Arnold F.

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Currently, I have a mix of lenses (Tokina, Canon, Leica-R) but am starting to think that it will be easier to get a single brand for various reasons, including continuity of use for follow focus, filters and mattebox. Naturally, I'd like to spend as little as I can get away with but will spend more if it's a good value. Ultimately, I'd like to switch to a PL set.

I could conceivably afford several thousand dollars for a "standard" set ranging from wide to telephoto. Here is a list, in no particular order, of things I'd like:

- primes preferred but zooms not ruled out
- f2 or faster if possible
- Canon mount (other mounts considered - would buy Allstar)
- cine-style interface preferred

I can afford the Samyang Cine lenses of course but would like to do better, if possible. Voigtlander? Leica M or R? Zeiss ZE? Something I don't yet know about?
 
Arnold.

I'd avoid Voigtlander and Leica M's personally. Cool lenses but not sure they really serve a purpose for you on a Epic or Scarlet. I'm sure they could in some respects, but your fairly limited to focal lengths you can use due to the flange distance. I'm pretty sure you can't use anything wider than a 50 on the Leica M's.

I for one use the Leica R's. I've found them extremely durable, reliable and to have a rendered look i'm very happy with. Everyone's preference is different. Mine is not dictated by price, but a look I really really liked. I've done testing on the 35 2.0 and 50 2.0 compared to the 1.4's of each. I found the 2.0's were sharper at 2.0, and through a good portion of the range than the 1.4's. I just wanted to see if it was really worth the hefty price jump. The single 1.4 Leica lens I own is the 80 1.4. It's a bit hard to build a 2.0 or 1.4 range through the whole series of lenses. I own the 24 2.8, 28 2.8, 35 2.0, 50 2.0 and 80 1.4 (got an insane deal on it). I find it to be a good lineup for me. I plan on adding a 19, and 60 macro as well.

I don't have the cash at this point in time to go through and cinemod each lens at this time, but plan to at some point. If you want to ever see any sample images I can email you stills from footage to see if you like the image.

Other good lenses to own are the Contax Zeiss lenses. Lots of people compare these in line with the Leica R's.

For most of my shooting Zoom's are still easier, although at this time I don't own a mid range zoom, only a 70-200. I plan on adding the Tamron 24-70 before to much longer.
 
If you're after mechanically continuity things start to get nice with a set of CP.2s (or maybe the upcoming Schneiders), the mechanics of still-lenses vary everywhere, even if you go for just one brand. I would say if you have a good set now, don't bother switching or rebuilding that set, because:

- save the money for the planned switch to pl
- electronic follow focus for AF lenses, like the Optitek (and hopefully the REDMOTE PRO) can make mechanical follow focus obselete, one big drawback solved
- we don't know what RED is doing with their lenses, but they're doing something (maybe it has to do with the "new technology")
- "cheaper" cinema-lenses don't offer better IQ over still lenses

I for myself have decided to not go the CP.2-route, i stay with a set of Canon EF-lenses, looking forward to use a electronic FF and maybe upgrade to RED lenses when the time is right and the budget there. But honestely, before i switch lenses i would get a EPIC and use that with the Canon glass.

Some ZE's are tempting me, i admit. ;)
 
I love my RPZ 18-85. It has become my goto lens. It's an incredible bargain IMO.

Paired with uber fast Canon L primes and I'm set. Complex focus pulls kinda suck on the Canons but 90% of the time the RED 18-85 is on my camera. Love it! When I need speed, the Canon primes save the day.
 
Maik Müller Menendez said:
- we don't know what RED is doing with their lenses, but they're doing something (maybe it has to do with the "new technology")
Click to expand...


I would speculate that RED won't make any lenses anymore because:

- Ketch is developping something and he wouldn't if he knew RED is about to launch something. ;-)
- Their focus is on delivery, more than anything else, as of today : projector, RED RAY...

Also looking for new solutions : close to PL mechanical performance, better AF than photographic lenses (adapted to moving pictures needs), as wide open as a Superspeed and resolves 5k/6k... and of course affordable... ;-)

Pat
 
If you believe Ketch has the ability or resources to develop a product line then you are nuts... Arnold, call me tomorrow afternnoon if you can...n
 
Patrick Tresch said:
I would speculate that RED won't make any lenses anymore because:

- Ketch is developping something and he wouldn't if he knew RED is about to launch something. ;-)
- Their focus is on delivery, more than anything else, as of today : projector, RED RAY...

Also looking for new solutions : close to PL mechanical performance, better AF than photographic lenses (adapted to moving pictures needs), as wide open as a Superspeed and resolves 5k/6k... and of course affordable... ;-)
Click to expand...
I don't think RED is dropping the lens department, they had a lot of stuff in development. I remember seeing concept-renders of electronic lenses with integrated displays, there was talk about a own RED mount and such things. Then there is the lightfield-rumour, hehe. I doubt they dropped that or gave it lower priority to do the delivery technology. I wouldn't see that as refocusing, they're completing their infrastructure by adding players and projectors. With proper playback solutions soon to be available it makes even more sense to keep the development on cameras and lenses going with full speed. ;)
 
Maik Müller Menendez said:
I don't think RED is dropping the lens department, they had a lot of stuff in development. I remember seeing concept-renders of electronic lenses with integrated displays, there was talk about a own RED mount and such things. Then there is the lightfield-rumour, hehe. I doubt they dropped that or gave it lower priority to do the delivery technology. I wouldn't see that as refocusing, they're completing their infrastructure by adding players and projectors. With proper playback solutions soon to be available it makes even more sense to keep the development on cameras and lenses going with full speed. ;)
Click to expand...

Hope you are right. But there are some very simple challenges that RED has to tackle like :

- Little DNX/ProRes module
- resolve the overheating issue
- Rocket card that plays 5k @ full debayer in RT, 6k would be better ;-)
- other goodies (Prerecord, flip monitor, new camera UI with better menus hiearchy...)

And we don't see it comming... I would prefer they stay focused on cameras.

Pat
 
Patrick Tresch said:
Hope you are right. But there are some very simple challenges that RED has to tackle like :

- Little DNX/ProRes module
- resolve the overheating issue
- Rocket card that plays 5k @ full debayer in RT, 6k would be better ;-)
- other goodies (Prerecord, flip monitor, new camera UI with better menus hiearchy...)

And we don't see it comming... I would prefer they stay focused on cameras.

Pat
Click to expand...

They also have many more employees now than they did in the past. And someone that is really experienced at designing lenses is not likely to be experienced at designing a ProRes/DNxHD module. I wouldn't assume they are or are not working on something just because we know about certain things they are working on.
 
I second the Zeiss Contax glass as a great alternative to Leica-R, but it's a matter of taste more than quality.

Another line of hidden gems are Minolta MC/MD lenses. While there is no direct mount, you can use the Leica-M mount with another adapter.
 
Uli Plank said:
I second the Zeiss Contax glass as a great alternative to Leica-R, but it's a matter of taste more than quality.

Another line of hidden gems are Minolta MC/MD lenses. While there is no direct mount, you can use the Leica-M mount with another adapter.
Click to expand...

Uli, couldn't agree with you more. I've had a chance to play with some Leica R's this summer, and like Contax...they are SUPERB. It's all a matter of taste. The Leica R's certainly had a more modern, snappy color. They were very saturated. And clean. The Contax have their own look, a more flaring, low-con Zeiss look that is more in the realm of Hasselblad, Super Speeds, and Standards. I participated in an informal test last week, and the coatings for Contax do indeed match their Zeiss cousins almost exactly (in fact, at 5.6 it was hard to tell Contax, Supers or Standards apart).

And the Minolta MD/MC lenses are INDEED hidden gems. Hard to get them onto a EOS mount though, the falange length is almost IDENTICAL to EOS. Minolta used to make and design lenses for Leica, that's all people need to know. They were THAT good. For a while, in the late 70's, they were regarded (by many) ABOVE Canon and Nikon, and just below Contax and Leica. My dad used to own a camera store in the 70's, and became a big fan of Minolta at the time, for these very reasons. Some of their optics are cult classics to this day.

The good news is, there IS a mount you can use on your Scarlet. THESE GUYS make one. You can see it in the picture on that old RUSER thread. Not sure if it's approved by RED, but there you have it....it IS possible to put these lenses on your Scarlet/Epic....just do so at your own risk, obviously...
 
I think the new sony PL's will be a nice option. If the speculations are right they would be even cheaper than CP2.s I would wait a good review or two first before commiting to buy. If I had to invest at the moment I think I'd go for a Zeiss set Duclos modified. Best bang for buck I think. And I like the ZF's look as well. Retains all the sharpness I like from Red footage and still have a really filmic look. Only my opinion of course. My dream set would be a Panchro's set ( the new mini S4's) but still out of budget for me.
 
I just invested in a set of old Helios stills lenses (M42 mount, fits EF easily with cheap adaptor). I *love* them. Stopped down to f/4 and they are plenty sharp enough for me, metal construction, f/2.8, long focus throw and nice focus action. f/2.8 is a bit soft, but in a very-flattering-to-skin-tones way. I have a 28, 35, 56 and 135 mm, all f/2.8 or faster.

The most expensive lens in the set was 40 pounds (about $60). There are shed loads of them on e-Bay.

Best of all, because their coatings are primitive they are very prone to lens flare, which gives them a whole TON of character.

Not the tool for every job, but I just shot with them for two days and I've fallen in love. They also happen to look nice intercut with a Samyang 14 mm which fills in the gap at the wide end on Scarlet.

So... whilst I'm sure there's a lot to be said for modern cine glass, I'd suggest picking up a set of old primes for less than the cost of a single cheap modern lens. If you hate the vintage characteristics, the whole lot probably costs less than a mounting plate.

Cheers, Hywel
 
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