Leica Summilux -C

[Aleksandr Frayman]

Hello everybody! Thanks for the help in my previous question) I have the next one .. Is it worth it Leica Summilux-c? And what is the best of it that you can buy?

 

[Phil Holland]

In terms of glass designed for Super 35mm, they are the most modern and optically the "best" of what's out there. Plus they are relatively small.

 

[Aleksandr Frayman]

In terms of glass designed for Super 35mm, they are the most modern and optically the "best" of what's out there. Plus they are relatively small.

Thanks for the answer dear Phil! Can you say that these are perfect lenses and you can not find anything better yet?

 

[Phil Holland]

Thanks for the answer dear Phil! Can you say that these are perfect lenses and you can not find anything better yet?

Anytime.

Quick answer. No. Because there is no perfect lens. There's only the lenses you love and what's right for whatever you are shooting or the style of shooting you're after.

Which is more or less why I shoot on lots of glass.

For Super 35mm glass you'll have a hard time finding anything better optically really. These are superior in many ways to the Master Primes. However, a good set of Ultra Primes are hard to beat, but slower at T1.9 for instance.

There are a lot of affordable solutions that might get you want you want, like the Sigma Cine Primes or even the CP.2/CP.3s.

If you are looking for super clean modern optics Summilux-C, Zeiss Otus, Sigma Cine, Tokina Cinema Vista, etc.....

 

[Michael Lindsay]

....there is no perfect lens

I agree 100%

hugely subjective from a taste POV... but also project to project...

 

[Erich Roland]

Arguably the "best" is subjective and controversial. But these are the top tier lenses of the industry. Just about every other lens is peripheral to these.

Top level cost and high speed (1.3-1.4

Zeiss Master Primes
Leica Summilux-C
Cooke S5i.

Working class, mid speed (1.9-2.0)

Zeiss Ultra Primes
Cooke S41
Leica Summicron -C

 

[Aleksandr Frayman]

Anytime.

Quick answer. No. Because there is no perfect lens. There's only the lenses you love and what's right for whatever you are shooting or the style of shooting you're after.

Which is more or less why I shoot on lots of glass.

For Super 35mm glass you'll have a hard time finding anything better optically really. These are superior in many ways to the Master Primes. However, a good set of Ultra Primes are hard to beat, but slower at T1.9 for instance.

There are a lot of affordable solutions that might get you want you want, like the Sigma Cine Primes or even the CP.2/CP.3s.

If you are looking for super clean modern optics Summilux-C, Zeiss Otus, Sigma Cine, Tokina Cinema Vista, etc.....

Many thanks for the answer! I really like how they paint. If this is not the best lenses, why do they cost so much? Marketing? I certainly would very much like to see what Sigma looks like and whether to buy them. I just want to buy a set of objects that are beautifully painted, have beautiful color and sharpness. Schneider Xenon ff me do not like.

 

[Seth Emmons]

If this is not the best lenses, why do they cost so much? Marketing?

The question of "best" in lenses, as mentioned by a number of people above, is not answerable. There is really only what is "best" for the project you are shooting. All lenses have different characteristics. If you want to say, which lenses are sharpest, there might be an answer. If you want to say, which lenses have the least contrast, there might be an answer for that. "Best" is just not specific enough when talking about lenses. And even if you ask 2 cinematographers what characteristics they think are best you'll probably get 5 answers.

As a practical example, which do you prefer the look of among this list: Birdman, The Theory of Everything, Whiplash, Westworld, NCIS: New Orleans, Ballers, ...? As you might guess, they're all shot using Leica Summilux-C lenses. And they're all very different in their look and feel. That's where the talent and job of the cinematographer comes in. The lens only gets you so far. The rest is lighting, filtration, camera choice, etc.

Now as to why they cost so much, that could take pages but the simple answers are: exotic glass types, difficult to produce and low yield aspheric elements, special characteristics like v-grooves and specific edge black paint, very tight assembly and performance parameters, hand assembly and continuous testing throughout assembly, and custom engraved focus scales for each serial number for extreme accuracy.

Other lenses are manufactured using some of these processes as well, but the combination of them in such small lenses adds up quickly in production cost. A simple example, look at the other super speed lenses in the market (Master Primes T1.3 and Cooke 5/i T1.4). These lenses are are much larger than the Leica Summilux-C. Making lenses smaller adds a lot of cost too and is why these lenses require such extreme aspheric elements. Generally an asphere can be calculated to do the work of 2-3 spherical elements in a lens design. So even though these lenses are the same speed, to make the Summilux-C smaller takes a lot of extra work and precision in glass shaping and polishing.

I hope that helps put things in perspective. I know there are also a good number of resources online, as well as other REDuser threads, that address the difference in cost of between lenses as well as the difference in cost between photo and cine lenses.

 

[Mark Toia]

Anytime.

Quick answer. No. Because there is no perfect lens. .

What Phil said.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

I just shot a series on the Leicas and they looked great... but we were in a small office with a hot daylight window and there was a slight flare from the window. Our 21mm Leica was being repaired and we had to get a 21mm Master Prime as a temporary replacement, and when we switched to the Master Prime, the flare went away. So if you want a lens with the most contrast and the least flare, then perhaps you might prefer Master Primes over Leicas. However, I went with the Leicas because they were T/1.4 lenses but are smaller and lighter than Master Primes or Cooke i/5's.

 

[Erich Roland]

I just shot a series on the Leicas and they looked great... but we were in a small office with a hot daylight window and there was a slight flare from the window. Our 21mm Leica was being repaired and we had to get a 21mm Master Prime as a temporary replacement, and when we switched to the Master Prime, the flare went away. So if you want a lens with the most contrast and the least flare, then perhaps you might prefer Master Primes over Leicas. However, I went with the Leicas because they were T/1.4 lenses but are smaller and lighter than Master Primes or Cooke i/5's.

Tough to beat a Zeiss Master prime. 1.3 stop, flare resistant, sharp..... and yes not the smallest lens in the world.
The other issue worthy of serious consideration if purchasing is the goal, is servicing. Who's going to do it, how long will it take, how often do they need bench help. Our Ziess lenses seem to need the least time out to a technician. The Cookes the most, and I consider to be a bit too fragile. I'm not sure yet where the Leica's land but I've heard that the Summilux's can have issues.

 

[Aleksandr Frayman]

Thank you all for your answers! I also consider buying a Cooke 5i, they seem to me magical.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Hello everybody! Thanks for the help in my previous question) I have the next one .. Is it worth it Leica Summilux-c? And what is the best of it that you can buy?

Many of the replies here are spot on...

As for the first question...

I was fortunate enough to be visiting Germany when the Leica Summilux where first anounced and shortly after re-visited to shoot a piece at Octoberfest where thanks to our friends at Leica & BandPro I got my hands on an early working Production prototype of the Leica Summilux-C...

That grin on my face upon seen the image on my LCD monitor that the lens was capturing (been used to the Master Primes says it all...

Leica has done an absolutely incredible job with their Summilux-C period!!

So to your question, are they worth it? Every accountable penny yes they are, and that is a lots of pennies

Then to go after some of the replies here and in progression of what a lens is, then it becomes more complex to answer, each Cinematographer might have a different answer if asked which lens is best.

Is there truly a best? Yes of course there is, problem is that there is a best lens for each job, look desired.

Do you fancy Smooth edge to edge sharpness, or a Contrasty look, do you wish for a very Shallow DOF which offers great sharpness edge to edge or prefer a lesser shallow DOF with a more contrasty look, do you like the capture of your image to be warmer and fuzzy to begin with or prefer a more clinical look at start?

Questions are very many when choosing glass, and there is why one should always test tirelessly prior choosing glass for any given project, unless of course you already know all your glass

For me comes down to this:

Master Primes: The older and yet undisputed King of Lenses when it comes to mechanical ingenuity of it's Housing construction (consider their age here) smoothness of gear (especially focus, buttery smooth) with a rubber ring that has made them great for Bare Hand Focusing, which I do lot's of it, it's just an hereditary thing from my Photography days.

The actual Glass still remains very sharp and amazing wide open even on the Helium 8k!

Leica Summilux-c: A simpler (in its complexity) design of the housing with a more traditional approach while been modern lenses, the gear are smooth just not even near as smooth as the Master Primes in the Focus. Size here is king for them at near the same speed of MP's Leica engineers here have achieved amazing things.

As for the actual glass, well here the Leica Summilux-C have achieved an incredible "Leica Look" once again yet with a special sauce that makes this super speeds so uniquely precious, and extremely expensive too, which has to do not at all with the housing but with the actual Glass, the availability and polishing process.

This lenses are just about the sharpest Cinema glass available, yet they produce a very nice and smooth image.

Leica Summicron C: This lenses are an other amazing accomplishment from Leica, in an entirely different way, great housing mechanics similar fill as the Summilux in gear movement and Focus, but shorter and easier to balance on some rigs especially Gimbals, but the current weight increase capacity on all major Gimbals really makes that not an issue any longer any ways.

As far as the glass goes, here the lenses have a completely different type of glass and polishing method then their big sis the Summilux which makes them also much more affordable and also slower.

They are not as sharp as the Summilux, even so some one might argue that they are, which this is do to the fact that this lenses have a more Contrasty look to them which makes off the back the images acquired with them seem sharper.


Cooke: I just don't use this lenses, never had, for some reason I just never liked them, but haven tested the newest addition.

Sigma Cine: This are re-housed still glass, which they did a great job at them but can't really be compared to the likes of MP's and Leica's.

Tokina Cinema Vista: This lenses designed as Cinema lenses not still glass afforded lot's of room for special designing and glass polishing techniques, and yes they are big and heavy similarly as the MP's but they impressed me very much.

First of all for me a true Cinema Lens must be at list in it's prime line up of the main Focal be made in equal in sizes weight, length and so on, and here Tokina has achieved all of this, where Sigma did not.

As far as the glass of the Tokina, so far impressed with what I am seen off the 85mm (my favorite focal), but still need to go thru the all production set to make final judgement on them, but I remain very positive, and coming from some one which treasured his personal set of Master Primes, both size and weight bother me not

Good luck with your choice Aleksandr...

 

[Aleksandr Frayman]

Many of the replies here are spot on...

As for the first question...

I was fortunate enough to be visiting Germany when the Leica Summilux where first anounced and shortly after re-visited to shoot a piece at Octoberfest where thanks to our friends at Leica & BandPro I got my hands on an early working Production prototype of the Leica Summilux-C...

That grin on my face upon seen the image on my LCD monitor that the lens was capturing (been used to the Master Primes says it all...

Leica has done an absolutely incredible job with their Summilux-C period!!

So to your question, are they worth it? Every accountable penny yes they are, and that is a lots of pennies

Then to go after some of the replies here and in progression of what a lens is, then it becomes more complex to answer, each Cinematographer might have a different answer if asked which lens is best.

Is there truly a best? Yes of course there is, problem is that there is a best lens for each job, look desired.

Do you fancy Smooth edge to edge sharpness, or a Contrasty look, do you wish for a very Shallow DOF which offers great sharpness edge to edge or prefer a lesser shallow DOF with a more contrasty look, do you like the capture of your image to be warmer and fuzzy to begin with or prefer a more clinical look at start?

Questions are very many when choosing glass, and there is why one should always test tirelessly prior choosing glass for any given project, unless of course you already know all your glass

For me comes down to this:

Master Primes: The older and yet undisputed King of Lenses when it comes to mechanical ingenuity of it's Housing construction (consider their age here) smoothness of gear (especially focus, buttery smooth) with a rubber ring that has made them great for Bare Hand Focusing, which I do lot's of it, it's just an hereditary thing from my Photography days.

The actual Glass still remains very sharp and amazing wide open even on the Helium 8k!

Leica Summilux-c: A simpler (in its complexity) design of the housing with a more traditional approach while been modern lenses, the gear are smooth just not even near as smooth as the Master Primes in the Focus. Size here is king for them at near the same speed of MP's Leica engineers here have achieved amazing things.

As for the actual glass, well here the Leica Summilux-C have achieved an incredible "Leica Look" once again yet with a special sauce that makes this super speeds so uniquely precious, and extremely expensive too, which has to do not at all with the housing but with the actual Glass, the availability and polishing process.

This lenses are just about the sharpest Cinema glass available, yet they produce a very nice and smooth image.

Leica Summicron C: This lenses are an other amazing accomplishment from Leica, in an entirely different way, great housing mechanics similar fill as the Summilux in gear movement and Focus, but shorter and easier to balance on some rigs especially Gimbals, but the current weight increase capacity on all major Gimbals really makes that not an issue any longer any ways.

As far as the glass goes, here the lenses have a completely different type of glass and polishing method then their big sis the Summilux which makes them also much more affordable and also slower.

They are not as sharp as the Summilux, even so some one might argue that they are, which this is do to the fact that this lenses have a more Contrasty look to them which makes off the back the images acquired with them seem sharper.


Cooke: I just don't use this lenses, never had, for some reason I just never liked them, but haven tested the newest addition.

Sigma Cine: This are re-housed still glass, which they did a great job at them but can't really be compared to the likes of MP's and Leica's.

Tokina Cinema Vista: This lenses designed as Cinema lenses not still glass afforded lot's of room for special designing and glass polishing techniques, and yes they are big and heavy similarly as the MP's but they impressed me very much.

First of all for me a true Cinema Lens must be at list in it's prime line up of the main Focal be made in equal in sizes weight, length and so on, and here Tokina has achieved all of this, where Sigma did not.

As far as the glass of the Tokina, so far impressed with what I am seen off the 85mm (my favorite focal), but still need to go thru the all production set to make final judgement on them, but I remain very positive, and coming from some one which treasured his personal set of Master Primes, both size and weight bother me not

Good luck with your choice Aleksandr...

WOWWW! It's just an incredibly cool answer! Thank you very much for your time. This helps me with the choice

 

[Ketch Rossi]

WOWWW! It's just an incredibly cool answer! Thank you very much for your time. This helps me with the choice

My absolute pleasure

But just be reminded that while this is indeed a well informed opinion I just shared, it's still just one man's opinion and you MUST play and test the lenses.