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Leica-R lenses for cine use? NYC region?

A. Clint Litton

A. Clint Litton

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Greetings,

I've been in the market for primes for some time now, and while I'd love to stick with PL glass for the most part, the few threads discussing Leica-R lenses for use on Epic is something I'd like to take seriously into consideration.

Is there anybody in the NYC area or Northeast who has been using Leica-R glass with their Red One/Epic? The Duclos mods, as well as Brian Goff's customization project, both seem very intriguing as potential alternatives to regular cinema glass, but I would love to get some feedback from owners who use this glass and can speak specifically to the advantages and shortcomings of going this route.

I know it's Leica glass and that has a strong following and reputation (likely to match the image quality), but I do want to see how these lenses perform in a narrative environment (i.e. tracking focus, breathing, racking, repeatable marks, etc) as compared to something that's properly rehoused. Anybody's feedback is welcome and greatly appreciated!

Of course, if there's anyone in the NYC region that has a set and is willing to let me stop in to take a closer look, it would be a godsend.

Regards,
Clint Litton

clintlittonATgmailDOTcom
 
Hey Clint

I think you know my buddy Paul Koestner?

I have a lovely one off Leica R mount for the Red, if you'd like to do some testing. I can probably make up one for Epic also.

Doug
 
We use Leica R Primes on our Red One with A mount system. I know Doug's mount is great too. For our work we usually do not have follow focus fitted but the lenses easily can have a delrin gear fitted and 80mm fronts. Opticaly the lenses are superb and difficult to know how you could beat them unless using a set of Summilux C's. Mechanicaly they are very well built but focus throw differs on the various lens designs, eg Summilux have a longer throw than the Elmarits. Maximum apeture doesnt really concern us as we are usually filming f4 and beyond. Im not going to comment personally on pulling focus as Im not a focus puller but those guys who use our lenses don't seem to have any practical difficulty. I think it really depends on how you want to use them. Using A mount adaptors improves the Lens mount no end so is a very good move for using stills lenses such as these in a motion picture environment.

We are starting to us the Elmarit's for 3D timelapse on 5D's. These lenses are known in 2D to have a 3D type look probably due to the high contrast rendering of the image so we look forward to seeing how these work out.

Our prefered set is

19mm (new version) (no Breathing)
24mm (Minimal Breathing)
28mm
35mm Summilux (no Breathing)
50mm Summilux (no Breathing)
80mm Summilux (no Breathing)
100mm f2.8 macro (no Breathing but a macro lens anyway, very useful as a 100mm in its own right but extends, the only macro lens that arguably might beat this is a Voigtlander Apo macro 125mm)
135mm
180mm f 2.8 mk2
400mm Apo Telyt with Apo x1.4 and x2


We would like but have not yet purchased
15mm f2.8
90mm f2
180mm f2
280mm Apo Telyt Modular head

We intend to use the Summicron f2 50mm and 35mm for Timlapse

No doubt the word Leica being typed will have set of some sort of alarm in Sanjin's shop who will no doubt have a view on all this !
 
Hi Dave -

Nice Collection of Leica R's

Have you tested the 35 and 50mm summicrons and summilux's against each other ? I'm thinking about making up a set with screw in leitex eos adapters to take advantage of the sweet locking ring blessed EOS mount for the Epic. Fill out the wide and long with L series canon zooms.

Any thought on this ?

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
Great tread and good writing.

If your prefer aperture is f/4+ and lightweight than use excellent Leica R zooms.

Vario-Elmar R 21-35 f/3.5-4.0 ASPH

Vario-Elmar R 35-70 f/4

Vario-Elmar 80-200 f/4

All are very sharp already @ wide open, no extending parts, lightweight, optically superb, minimal lateral aberrations (chromatic, spherical, coma, distortion, astigmatism, field curvature), almost no breathing or it's minimal, Leica look.

When you need something faster than pull out some of Summilux (35,50,80 f/1.4) or Summicron (35,50, 90 f/2)

Use Novoflex Leica R to EOS adapter on Epic with Canon EOS electronic mount.
 
Matt Uhry said:
Hi Dave -

Nice Collection of Leica R's

Have you tested the 35 and 50mm summicrons and summilux's against each other ? I'm thinking about making up a set with screw in leitex eos adapters to take advantage of the sweet locking ring blessed EOS mount for the Epic. Fill out the wide and long with L series canon zooms.

Any thought on this ?

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
Click to expand...

They are great lenses for sure. The Summicron's appear slightly more crisp, I hesitate to say sharper as we havent measured it but there not much in it, I think its how it renders the bokeh. The main issue, if there is an issue is they are limited to f16 and the Elmairits run to f22, Some times for long exposure timelapse the extra depth of feild is useful. I think you would be perfectly OK with either lens, in truth the only reason we went Summilux was we have a 50mm already so purchased the other two when we found good examples. You will make a substantial saving going Summicron though. The 80mm is a nice lens though. We have some Nikon ED lenses the 80 200 is OK at the tight end but looks rough at the wide end if you want to match to them. Ive been wanting to try a Leica 70 180 f2.8 zoom but the examples of seen from web trawls of images look sharp enough but look rougher than the ED lens for bokeh so I think Id agree Canon may be a better bet. Our Canon 70 200 looks good and I think it will cut OK. We dont yet have a Canon mount to get it on to a Red but hope to soon via Epic. Our Duclos 11 16 lens is great but has a rather different character. I believe the 15mm lenses are quite different and although the ASPH lens is undoubtably better it may not match the set of lenses as well as the earlier f3.5 lens. This is just a guess till we can lay our hands on one and run some proper tests. What I do know is that every one likes the look of the images from these lenses.

If you were to use the Canon mount Id recon thats a good way to go with the leitax adaptor. Id also Also Matthew Duclos as I think he has a means of Grafting an EF mount on to the R lenses which would be a good move. For us, Im more interested in the Epic with the Canon mount or A mount than PL.

Let me know how you get on, id be really interested.

Id also be interested to hear Sanjin's view of the R 70 180 f2.8 ?
 
Thanks Dave,

I guess once my Epic EOS mount shows up I'll try to get up to Duclos's shop and do a test with their set. Or maybe just put them on a small job and see what happens ?

IMG_0383.jpg


http://ducloslenses.com/Duclos_Lenses/rentaleica.html

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
Thank you all who have posted so far for your insight.

I, too, was wondering about the differences found between Elmarit, Summicron and Summilux lenses of the same or similar focal length. Given that the set would ultimately be inconsistent in terms of widest aperture from lens to lens, I'm not opposed to choosing an f/2 lens over an f/1.4 lens if it is hands-down a better performing lens (aside from losing some stop).

While I would like to say that working primarily at an f/4 is something always achievable, in truth I'd like to keep into consideration that I may be using these in available light only situations, and therefore would still like to maintain some speed nestled within the set for those times where that extra stop helps.

For now, mainly interested in primes, though I'll keep an eye out for zooms that can round out the package, so thanks for the recommendations, Sanjin. Your thoughts on R primes are still welcome if you'd like to come back for round two ;)

Dave - thank you so much for all the insight you've provided...very useful to an outsider trying to piece things together, via the internet no less. Is there any footage/reel/work of yours online that might showcase how these lenses perform?

Matt...long time no talk. I'd love to hear your thoughts on lens performance if you can get your hands on the Duclos set (or any others for that matter). Hope you've been well, and I trust that you're still making great images...drop me a line if you're ever back this way again.

Doug...yes, I feel like I should know you for all the times that Paul mentions your name and projects! Karl Kim as well. As for the mount, my aim is to bring this set over to Epic by way of Canon mount with EOS adapters that live on the lenses. But since you've clearly had R lenses in your possession for designing and testing the mount, what were your thoughts? Any footage we could see? On a separate note, keep up the good work on those great camera support inventions; I'm sure I'll be sending you money before too long...

Any other thoughts or frame grabs or links to footage shot with these lenses would be happily received!

Thanks again,
Clint
 
Clint,

I would recommend the following pdf book Leica Lens Compendium 2005 as the best info and read everything you would like to know about Leica lenses (Leica R included) written in English by a Dutch Leica expert Erwin Puts.

All info in the book is 100% accurate and I can't add anything new on that.

Leica Lens Compendium

Click HERE >>> to download in PDF Format.

There is the newest version but exists only as a real paper book and can be ordered HERE >>>
This pdf file was supplied by Erwin Puts and is published here, with permission.
Copyright, Erwin Puts. The Netherlands.
 
Clint -

I too was considering putting together a set of Leica R lenses for cine use.

What I kept coming up with was that the set would be expensive. Some of the wider lenses would cost $2500 or more, which puts them in Zeiss T2.1 territory. They are supposedly very well made, like cine lenses, with aluminum and brass works where others use plastic. Also the mounts are like super robust versions of the Nikon mount. The wider lenses don't open up more than 2.8 and some even 3.5, and the zooms seem to all be T4. They are, especially the more expensive ones, very sharp. I believe they focus in the "correct" direction, unlike Nikon. They have decent and well marked focus throws. Right now, with the Leica C primes being the end of the optic world for cine use, they even have cachet.

But I've stuck to my Nikons. They are inexpensive, plentiful, and some, like my 17-55 aspherical, are just as sharp as I could ever want, especially on the RED. I have an 8 Peleng, 11-16 Tokina, 28, 35, 50, 85, 135, the 17-55 Nikon, a 70-200 Tokina, a funky 35-105 Kiron Macro. To make a set like this in Leica R would pretty much be impossible and would be about the same as a set of the Zeiss T2.1 primes.

The 17-55 is the workhorse.

Still, there might be a Leica R out there that gives you that famous "3D" look . . .
 
@Clint - I use the A mount as well. I think Jarred hinted that they might make an R mount for the Epic. But if you're like me you'll use them for stills when not in production as well. I think Dave summed it up pretty well. I use summicrons primes however. 50 and the 90mm. The breathing is not too bad, comparable to other lenses I've used. And the longer focus throw makes it much easier to use than other still photography lenses. The only thing I dont like is the shape of the bokeh on the 50 summicron when stopped down. The 90 is definitely an awesome lens for close ups.

@Matt - I did not know Duclos had a leica R set for rent! I was in the process of putting my own set together. But this is definitely a great option. Definitely looking forward to those test.

@Sanjin - thanks for the literature. Always sure you'll be around if we start talkin Leica.

@Brian - Thanks for the snapshots! Always like being able to experiment with other people's shots in RCX.

@Doug - I do agree for the money Nikons are the best. I just could not get comfortable with the throw and the direction of the throw. Leicas do focus in the standard direction. Many compare Zeiss to Leica. I do prefer the look of Leica's. Optically I think its not a question of whether they are on par, but which you prefer. There are definite advantages to Zeiss glass when compared to Leicas at that price. (Namely mechanics and speed) But I honestly do not shoot wide open often. Some like option, I find myself shooting f4 or even past for focus reasons.

I think it's also a little about being unique. For me there's a certain uniqueness to the image rendered from the Leica's.
 
Hi Brian,

What is your view of the Leica 70-180 2.8 to match to the primes. I dont see to be able to find anything much by way of examples of shots. Im interested in the bokeh. Also if I were ever to buy Angenieux 16 42 and 30 80 how well if might match to them.

thanks for the shots so far they are really nice and do have that 3D ness about them.

Dave
 
"The LEICA VARIO-APO-ELMARIT-R 70-180 mm f/2.8 is the first zoom lens that can challenge the best single focal length lenses in its zoom range and even today is still state of the art."

Erwin Puts Column 70-180 mm Leica R Lenses >>>
 
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