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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Lav mic comparison

I checked out a bunch of mic comparisons (and rented a few) recently and determined that while I love the COS11's sound, all things considered (that mostly I'll be taking audio from the boom), I am going to opt for a less expensive option. The Oscarsoundtech 801 did, in fact, sound nearly identical to the Tram... however I've heard scattered reports that the OscarSoundTech TL-40 sounds like either a B6 or a COS11... but I can't find any TL-40 audio samples anywhere. Does anyone have experience with this mic and can report to me the sound or point to or post samples?

(BTW I am going to be using them with the H1's... I just loved that technique)
 
I just received my Oscar Tech TL-40's today and tried them wired into my zoom h1's. initial feeling is very positive. I will be using them on a production this weekend and will report back. Originally I was going with the 801's but people said the TL-40's were more like the COS-11's. I can't make that comparison because I don't have a COS-11 handy and my previous test with the COS-11 was going into a different recorder - but what I'm hearing is not quite the same brightness, but definitely a full and warm quality to the sound. More on this later... but I really love this portable recorder solution for lavs - especially since we so often shoot in warehouse areas where we get mass interference and the audio is useless regardless of the high quality equipment.
 
another mic to try is the countryman B3. Looks like a fat B6. Sounds like a fat B6. Handles like a fat B6. Same cable and everything. IF you don't need the B6 ultimate hidability, but don't want ot go with something as large as the COS-11 it's a really good choice. And pretty cheap to boot.
 
BTW, if you'd like to hear a major film where quite a bit of the dialog was done on wireless Tram TR50's, watch The King's Speech. Nominated for (but did not win) an Oscar for Best Sound. This documentary goes into mixer Tom Midgely's philosophies and techniques in great detail:

http://soundworkscollection.com/thekingsspeech

To echo Ryan's endorsement of the Countryman B3, I would also add that this lav is also waterproof (or at least water resistant). It's a little harder to find than the Tram or the Oscartech, but it's a very similar-sounding mike.
 
I have now used the TL-40's combined with the Zoom H1's on a series of spec commercials I was doing to experiment with different production techniques. (Shot with the D60, not my RED because my RED was rented out and for all but one of these it was just me and the actors, no one else and I needed something I could solo shoot within 2-4 hours.)

Here are some samples:


TL-40's only, nothing else, no boom:

http://zooppa.com/ads/matchingdonors-wants-a-piece-of-you/videos/battle-scars

TL-40's mostly, with just a tiny bit of DR100 open micing added in for "stereo reverberation" (was an interesting trick I must say)

http://zooppa.com/ads/amazon-freedom-to-choose-video-contest/videos/change-for-a-dime

TL-40's mixed with Senn MKH50 (attached to C-stand). (DP Howard Newstate & VO btw will be replaced, didn't have it in time here)

http://zooppa.com/ads/horizon-back-to-school-blues/videos/two-of-me
 
Just reading back through this thread. The majority of the mics, particularly the TR-50 and similar styled mics and Cos 11's are all going to be with in the top couple of % of available personal mics. The difference will come in use and matching to other mics also the voice of the actor, so to a large degree its more personal choice based on what the mics is capable of. All though my own choice is still pretty much TR 50's its best to have a selection fo mics dependent on the circumstances. I dont think the one size fits all principle works here.
 
I have Voice Technologies lav along with my Schoeps. I had to chose between the Trams 50, the DPAs and the Voice-Techs. I chose the Voice-Techs because they match the Schoeps best. It's a personal choice an has a lot to do how one thinks that voices should sound like. There are many around who like a MKH 416. For me it sounds like a Coke bottle. The same personal preference is with Lavs. Great that there are so many choices.

Hans
 
Note there are different generations of MKH416's, going back to the 1970s. This mike was long in production, and they don't all sound the same. I'll tell you that a recent-vintage P48 MKH416 does not sound like a coke bottle. In some ways, I prefer the newer MKH60 -- the boom ops like it more, because it's a lighter-weight mike than the 416, but has very similar characteristics -- but they each can cut through to get dialog in tough locations.

Some sound engineers really like the Voice Techs, and those are also very similar to the Sonotrims. Both are essentially flat versions of the Trams. I prefer the Trams for situations where I have to bury them under a layer of clothing, since the peaked high end cuts through a little better. The DPAs and Countryman mikes also have their loyal users.

As far as matching lavs with booms, so much depends on acoustics, it's a dicey area. Re-recording mixers and dialog editors are so good nowadays, I think they can get very close with EQ and even convolution reverbs to get the lavs to have more of a natural "room" sound. Tom Midgely of The King's Speech goes into this in some detail.

Realistically, I think a lot boils down more to where you place the mike and how it's used, not just what microphone is used. The choice of wireless transmitter is also a big factor in sound quality. Giving the post sound people options later on is the key -- anything to avoid ADR when possible.
 
Marc Wielage said:
Note there are different generations of MKH416's, going back to the 1970s. This mike was long in production, and they don't all sound the same. I'll tell you that a recent-vintage P48 MKH416 does not sound like a coke bottle. In some ways, I prefer the newer MKH60 -- the boom ops like it more, because it's a lighter-weight mike than the 416, but has very similar characteristics -- but they each can cut through to get dialog in tough locations.
Click to expand...

I agree, the other point is how reliable the mic is in the environment. Ive used a 416 in very humid literaly under a waterfall and very hot +60 C and down to -40C it worked fine, No issues. However in an MS pair or in just Mono they phase like crazy on a pan so in my view that are not suited to panning or stereo use. An MKH 60 will not work in hot humid conditions, the capsule wont out put audio. It doesnt phase and is great for MS work.

Marc Wielage said:
Realistically, I think a lot boils down more to where you place the mike and how it's used, not just what microphone is used. The choice of wireless transmitter is also a big factor in sound quality. Giving the post sound people options later on is the key -- anything to avoid ADR when possible.
Click to expand...

I couldnt agree more. This overrides any choice of mic, if its in an unsuitable place then your doomed. First rule of mic placement. It is more important what a mic isnt looking at than what it is looking at. ie dont point it at something you dont want to hear, theres usually a placement to place what isnt desired off mic and still capture on mic the sound you require.
 
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