Last minute DP job 10 million views

[Ben Scott]

I find it absolutely hilarious that using the "r" word is by many here considered worse offense than waving wades of cash in one hand and gun in the other if front of a 5year old.bwahahahaha!!!!! made me laugh out loud ;-)
"but it is just a music video- no harm done-just artistic expression, freedom of artistic expression" did I miss an excuse? where does it end? There was a guy 2000 years ago that tried to put an end to it. He go executed. And our society still struggles with his concept....

I don't think rap existed 2000 years ago mate.

 

[Ben Scott]

In the early seventies my sister was the President of YARC (Youth Association for Retarded Children) the teenage volunteer division of NARC (which about then was not the greatest acronym - narc came to mean something else.)


wikipedia: "The organization (ARC) was originally called the National Association for Retarded Children from 1953 to 1973 and then was the National Association for Retarded Citizens from 1973 to 1981, the Association for Retarded Citizens of the United States from 1981 to 1992, and it assumed its present name in 1992, as part of expanding its function and reacting to the euphemism treadmill."

And I worked for a year in the early 80s as a counselor at a facility for retarded children (we still called it that then). It is too bad the "euphemism treadmill" took over because it is a reasonably accurate description of the issue - many of those citizens were interesting human beings but their mental and social development was "retarded". It is kind of funny that we can't criticize the artistic merit of a 3 minute video but take heat for using a (politically incorrect, I guess) word that is a pretty accurate description.






The convo didn't go off the rails. A technica discussion never really materialized in three threads - the only real convo has been the discussion of societal effect/merit.

Same with the term spastic which went from being descriptive to become a pejorative. Language evolves.

 

[Michael Hastings]

I don't think rap existed 2000 years ago mate.

There must be rap in the bible - they just had no way of recording the music part :wink5:

Same with the term spastic which went from being descriptive to become a pejorative. Language evolves.

Wasn't really the point :wink5:


BTW the "convo" has generated 89 posts and 5000+ views - not a bad thing.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Maybe it's time for us to get a kickstarter or gofundme campaign to produce a rap version of Jesus Christ Superstar - you heard it here first.

 

[Sabovic Adis]

There must be rap in the bible - they just had no way of recording the music part :wink5:

Actually, not true - long before wax, vinyl, mag. tape & plastique, there was papyrus (stone is even older).
Sound ain't music... it's just a carrier. :rofl:


:thumbsup:

 

[Daniel Stilling]

Well, forgetting about all the social commentary for a minute. I was not going to comment on this, but here it goes and forgive me, but I will be candid here on my technical and artistic assertion, since that is what you were asking for:
Technically there's really nothing to write home about. 120fps all day with a guy pointing at the camera and singing and some B roll of what was happening right around on "set". There's really no concept other than that. So, I'm really sorry, but technically this is very average.
I can detect no lighting or grip support, not even a bounce to bring up faces. There's really no "crafting" of interesting shots, weather via angles or camera movement, lighting, and concept. Not even a token focus rack from money to the guys face smiling for example.

Now, on the artistic side, I have refused to work on productions, including feature films, where violence is glorified and center of attention. we are responsible for what gets viewed by people. And I want my contribution to have a positive impact. Do I work on stuff that has violence in it? Yes. Violence is part of reality, but unless it's just a means to inspire something positive, I chose not to do it. And I can only hope that my fellow filmmaker peers would strive for a world with less hate and violence and more positive thoughts and actions...

 

[Michael Hastings]

Actually, not true - long before wax, vinyl, mag. tape & plastique, there was papyrus (stone is even older).
Sound ain't music... it's just a carrier. :rofl:


:thumbsup:

true, but you know what I meant .... :thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Keith B Plummer]

Daniel I respect your work and it's a fair assessment.

You might have missed that I said there was no support, no lights, flags, silks or monitors. I have a 1 ton grip/lighting trailer and was told I didn't need it. So I went to the set expecting gear would be there. Nope. Shooting with Noon sun in Atlanta creates very harsh contrast but you deal with the hand that is given and you make it work. My best artistic Magic Hour stuff was cut out along with racks, Dutch angles and more artistic shots. So it is what it is. I don't have final say. Given the work I normally do I even wondered whether to put it on my reel but after it's popularity I feel it should go on the reel. Even though I'm hearing mixed views here. There was no lighting just emotion and that is what I captured. It might not resonate with some but it does have an audience and I guess people are having a problem with the audience.

Me, I'm not in a position to turn down work based solely on whether it's only an uplifting subject or not but again I didn't know the deal until I got there. Once there I wasn't going to walk off set.

Part of the irony of this thread is I have made many documentaries on positive and uplifting subjects but 1 rap video is what gets noticed the most. (Example: I'm currently doing a doc of a woman roller derby player as she battles for her life against Breast Cancer.) I bet this year long story won't get 10 million views. That was part of my point. Who knew this little video would see the light of day much less get as many views as it has. It's not my best work but it's work non the less.

People have gone all hard on this video and me for shooting it. I'm not the cause of poverty, hunger, displacement or violence. Me not shooting rap videos won't end them. I've only shot 1 and how many are out there? People didn't like gansta rap, now NWA is in the Rock&Roll Hall of Fame, Ice T is playing a cop on tv after years of singing Cop Killer. Ice Cube is mainstream actor and writing kids movies. 90's hard core rap is now the music behind mainstream commercials. You might not like the music now but who knows later.

Much respect to all of you this has been enlightening. Keep doing what you do. Stay strong to your beliefs as I will mine. As some great DP's have said long before me and it applies to this video. " I don't write it, I light it" Which means to me, I'm their to do a job.

I do have to question, if I had shot this on another camera would a simple post have gone down like this? Would a rape scene in a movie or a Mob hit get as much vitriol? Would a decapitation in front of a child in a horror film have 10 pages of venom? Or?

This thread needs to be Locked so everyone can move on. I will keep watching to see if the next rap video DP gets blasted like this. Oh, the post should now read 11 million for what it's worth but don't worry I won't share any more of my work here. You guys have made it clear that only positive uplifting projects should be posted. So no fashion models, horror, comedies, Romance, cop shows, westerns, dramas, etc. because you never know who they might offend.

Lock this thread so there won't be anymore rap videos made.

Out

 

[Daniel Stilling]

Me, I'm not in a position to turn down work based solely on whether it's only an uplifting subject or not but again I didn't know the deal until I got there. Once there I wasn't going to walk off set.

Man, believe me, not all my work is positive and uplifting. I have done so many commercials that all they lift up is the companies bottom line. But they don't have a negative vibe or straight out violence as the main character. I think that's the main perceived issue people are having. I have done a ton of music videos in the past that were empty of substance, for the sake of entertainment, and thats OK with me... I just can't do stuff that brings out the worst in us.
Now, I would hope that you would want to share your positive, uplifting stories. I support you 100% and I wish you would want those seen for the quality of your work and the positive stories, instead of a video that has 10 million views. That number really doesn't matter.
And don't think that just because your story is uplifting, that you won't get criticized for it. You will, and you will need thick skin and a valid argument.
I recently posted about a doc I did that is trying to make a positive difference in the world and I did get criticized for that, but that doesn't change my convictions, as I'm sure this thread won't change yours. It's what you chose to do with those convictions that will make a difference.
Now regarding the technical side of your video, I too have been put in similar position, I think most of us have, where you don't get any support or equipment you need to work with. But you can be sure you'll never see that in my reel. Sometimes quality beats popularity...

 

[Sabovic Adis]

true, but you know what I meant .... :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Yes, I do.
And, if I may add, I, hereby, strongly object against being a Mindreader! Damn...:rofl:


:thumbsup:

 

[Luke Neumann]

https://imgur.com/gallery/9Zxd8gh

Dude, I think you made your point. Back off.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Keith makes a great point, there have been plenty of horror projects posted on these boards, and no one has spoken up - though they are certainly more overtly violent.

What is it about this rap video that has spurred so much rage? There have been plenty of Rap videos before on these boards with equally aggressive tones...

Also there have been countless works posted objectifying women, and pushing the boundaries of sexual decency...and again...nary a peep.

What is about THIS video?

I ask because I'm generally curious.

Is it simply that in this video the possibility of violence feels more real? And undeniable? These are clearly real people in a real neighborhood with real guns - it doesn't have the comforting detachment of a slick shoot, or a calculated Hollywood product. Which is actually my favorite part about this video - its Dogme 95 aethetic gives it a blunt realism that has clearly hit a nerve.

 

[Dan Kanes]

Anybody else watch "The Getdown" on Netflix?

Plenty there for some of us to be offended by, while others will see it as sort of a "Hairspray" or "Grease" depiction of the reality people experienced in the late 70's in New York.

Something I don't think any of us have touched on is the idea of myth creation or storytelling aspect. Maybe this video is not an exact representation of the reality the people in the video express, but rather a dramatized presentation about the struggles of feeding one's family in impoverished conditions.

To the people who brought up religion representation...

One might even go so far as to say (gasp) the bible itself is a dramatization of a Mixture of real and unreal events with special embellishment to induce people to think And act in certain ways.

The bible does at times describe and encourage acts of violence.

I suppose it takes higher evolution of thought (which I believe all of us on this forum have) to choose our own path of morals and ethics. Personally I feel that browbeating another person for posting material some people don't necessarily like or agree with is pretty lame. I mean it's okay to say "I don't personally care for most rap videos" , but the vitriol expressed by some here is completely unnecessary.

One last point - I believe that even if you don't like the message of this video - it did have a positive impact on all of us in terms of thinking about what our stance is on many topics across the board, and creating a dialogue between people with different opinions. In the end, that's the beauty of freedom that many of us get to experience, and some of or brothers and sisters in other parts of the world are prevented from having. Freedom of expression is a beautiful thing, and it's our individual choice of how we get to use it.

Personally I hope the artist in the video is able to harness those 10m views into "feeding the family" and helps build his voice and ability to create compelling music and ideas - even if I personally don't find the video as compelling as this classic, at least they are trying:

https://g.co/kgs/whTFJj

 

[Ben Scott]

The violence, morals and attitudes towards race/gender/sexuality in something like the Sopranos are unrelenting and absolutely abhorrent if you were to break them down but that is held up as one of the greatest tv shows of the last century.

One cannot be selective with morality or with allowing artists to enjoy freedom of expression just because they then might go on to express something we don't like. Just because someone isn't as articulate as you'd like, or has a life experience alien to you, is no reason to deny them a voice.

And please, let's never bring religion into it again otherwise this thread will get deleted and I'll no doubt get banned. As Dan highlighted though, there is more violence in the bible and more incitement to violence in it than most rap videos combined.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Language evolves.

Language mutates depending on the state of society.
It can evolve and deteriorate.

What is it about this rap video that has spurred so much rage?

You are lacking a distinction between criticism and rage.
It is understandable why.

There have been plenty of Rap videos before on these boards with equally aggressive tones...
Also there have been countless works posted objectifying women, and pushing the boundaries of sexual decency...and again...nary a peep.

"Argumentum ad populum" based rhetoric has been used countless of times, recently as well, and is equally valid.

What is about THIS video?

I ask because I'm generally curious.

Is it simply that in this video the possibility of violence feels more real? And undeniable? These are clearly real people in a real neighborhood with real guns - it doesn't have the comforting detachment of a slick shoot, or a calculated Hollywood product. Which is actually my favorite part about this video - its Dogme 95 aethetic gives it a blunt realism that has clearly hit a nerve.

I addressed the issue few times in past posts so if you are really interested on the input which is not a product of wishful thinking or denial, effort has already been invested in sharing it, despite the tantrums.

Blunt realism in normal world is reserved for documentary and types of art which pass through developed psyche and are served in the context and proper occasion. And not in the mass feeder from morning till before bed. Otherwise you get a society waving guns for fun, numb to the death of their fellow men, playing a poor misunderstood victim and all amazed when someone outside of the bubble tries to explain their mass mind is fried.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

One cannot be selective with morality or with allowing artists to enjoy freedom of expression just because they then might go on to express something we don't like.

It has nothing to do with that. You can express what ever you want how every you like in your back yard or with your buddies.

When you want to create a work which a mass of people will assimilate in ways you are clueless about, there is education teaching you how to do it properly and not just toy with words and images as you wish, because what you leave behind, will affect many.

Where your intent is not the decisive factor, or simple creative urge or release valve is not a justification to leave a pile of shit in the middle of the street. Regardless of how good it felt releasing it or what you meant by it.

That has nothing to do with censorship, nor with "freedom of expression", which is just a lately over-used mantra to justify ignorance, irresponsibility and laziness for creating something which takes more time and effort than just dropping the first thing which pops to one's head.

Something which has been ignored in this rapid expansion of creative tools and media accessibility, and means running before the knowledge of using them properly, but won't change laws and principles of psyche nor it will remove the repercussions of toying with them.

 

[Ben Scott]

To reiterate, I've no intention of discussing this with you Hrvoje as I find your posts blinkered, dogmatic and trying to shut down conversation and any opinion but your own by immediately jumping on the age-old internet debate killers of referring to logical fallacies and strawman arguments.

You are not interested in conversation on what is clearly a nuanced subject with a lot of room for differing working philosophies. You just want everyone to say you are right.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

To reiterate, I've no intention of discussing this with you Hrvoje as I find your posts blinkered, dogmatic and trying to shut down conversation and any opinion but your own by immediately jumping on the age-old internet debate killers of referring to logical fallacies and strawman arguments.

You are not interested in conversation on what is clearly a nuanced subject with a lot of room for differing working philosophies. You just want everyone to say you are right.

Seeing the past rhetoric, the reaction is understandable.
The impression and guesswork are way off, sadly.

Let's try with accurate logical processes first and actually focusing and considering what was written, and if that shows as successful we can try playing guessing games on who thinks or wants what, preferably in a topic where it doesn't create confusion and illusions.

 

[Ben Scott]

Again, just a startling level of condescension for someone who appears to be from the Art Police and who wants to ensure only people who have been adequately educated to your arbitrary standard as to their respective responsibilities in promoting positive images society are allowed to publicly release content.

No thanks.

 

[David Peterson]

Me, I'm not in a position to turn down work based solely on whether it's only an uplifting subject or not but again I didn't know the deal until I got there. Once there I wasn't going to walk off set.

Even if a person arrives on set and finds out the subject is a bit borderline iffy, I think it says a lot about the person in a good way if they stay there and do well to the best of their abilities the job they promised to do.

As it is a very very bad look to walk away from a job you've promised to do.

There had better be a good ultra EXTREME reason (a run of the mill rap video is certainly NOT a good enough reason) why you have to quit. Otherwise be a man of your word! And do the job.

Keith, the fact you showed up and did this job well to the best of your abilities in the conditions given, is a positive tribute to your character. And does NOT shine a negative light on you like people here are trying to claim.