LA RED ONE Rental $150/day August 17-Sept 5th

[Alex Carr]

I would love to get a decent rate with my Red, but the last few months I have been getting underbid by ridiculous amounts. I suppose its just Los Angeles, in other areas Reds are not as abundant.

 

[Joyfool]

I would love to get a decent rate with my Red, but the last few months I have been getting underbid by ridiculous amounts. I suppose its just Los Angeles, in other areas Reds are not as abundant.

Oooh careful, speaking the truth can be blasphemous around these parts... :thumbsup:

 

[Vince K]

Oooh careful, speaking the truth can be blasphemous around these parts... :thumbsup:

you mean like......real names?:thumbsup:

 

[Nathan Beaman]

I would love to get a decent rate with my Red, but the last few months I have been getting underbid by ridiculous amounts. I suppose its just Los Angeles, in other areas Reds are not as abundant.

it's like that everywhere. Even in Vermont!

Most rental houses will make it look like they are giving the red out for free and make it up in accessories and lenses by not cutting deals on them. Most producers get blinded by the free or low price tag to not see while they're getting the red for free they are paying a 4 day week on the lenses or something else.

 

[Joyfool]

you mean like......real names?:thumbsup:

do I have to? really? but I like my anonymity...momma please don't make me do it. oh please don't. I promise to never talk about RED rates in LA in fact I swear whenever possible I'll pay more than the going rate...just don't make me write my name! :crying:

 

[D Namir]

Also, in my 20+ years of experience renting cameras, I have discovered the following corollary:
The productions that seek out the cheapest rental (or bargain you down the most) are also very likely the jobs where the gear gets beaten up the most, cables get lost, cases come back with muddy footprints all over them, etc.
They are also the jobs where lunch is likely to be late, and the check comes slowly.
The productions that are happy to pay a reasonable fee are the jobs where everyone and everything on set are treated with respect.
Not a hard and fast rule, but it seems to be true most of the time...
So, best of luck with your well thought out business plan. I'm sure it will work out great!
Cheers,
Harry

You got it right

 

[Kholi Hicks]

This thread rocks SO hard.

You think THIS guy is renting low? Why don't you go and throw up a RED rental ad on LA Craigslist and see what kind of steals you can get.

I understand everyone's viewpoint, but the truth of the matter is that it was destined to be this way from the get-go. And when Scarlet is released (whenever that may be) there won't really be anymore RED or SCARLET rental market. When everyone has one, they're gonna go out for 75 a day with Nikon lenses. =T

But if it makes you feel any better, my HPX170 rents for more than twice as much as this guys RED and it's out every week. When these little VDSLRs catch on I'm going to lose all that good money.

Well, maybe.

Rental Markets are suck!

 

[Rick Darge]

Rental markets are SUCK!

I feel bad for the guys who bought a Red thinking they'd make millions off rentals.

If you don't have skillz, you're going to get left behind when Scarlet takes over the world

 

[Chip G]

Rental markets are SUCK!

I feel bad for the guys who bought a Red thinking they'd make millions off rentals.

If you don't have skillz, you're going to get left behind when Scarlet takes over the world

Yep, I feel really bad for all the people who thought if they bought the cam and pointed it in the right direction they would make $5.89 off thier producton. (talking about a non stock footage business or paying gig, a spec project)

A few never cared about the money FTR :thumbsup: (big timers)

I'll be renting my scarlet for $29 a day, taking reservations & third party post dated out of state checks from the bank of Tiajana now!

 

[Tim Naylor]

If you're looking for best return to purchase, RED, isn't it. But it does bring in skill business. We pretty much stopped renting to strangers and send it out only with members of our company. Just not worth it, hassle and money wise. If you're not a rental house, I find the only way to make rental money off the RED is to package it with skills.

We got our package in January and passed the halfway point of paying it off. We basically package it with cinematographers. I am finding day by day the RED tech will be less of a sell as it will and should be completely subsumed into the 2nds position or loader on bigger shoots.

Gone will be the days of the "computer" only RED data chimp. If they can't lay down marks, set up monitors, help move the camera department, in essence be a part of the camera department productions will have little use for them.

RED will probably bottom out to the returns you get on a good tripod. For money makers, my monitors do the best. Hell I can still get 175.00 for BTH 1700 in NYC. My HVX's are still scoring 250/day on a regular basis. 1200 dollar Kinos will get you 75/ for a 4x4. A 600 dollar skateboard dolly gets you 50.00.

What I'm really curious to see is how the new cheaper lenses turn the market upside down. 200/day for set of RPP's?

If you want make money off the rental business, the camera is just to get people in the door. Film camera bodies are the loss leaders for accessories. I can rent an arricam body for 400/day (costing many times a RED), but then I need a set of MP's.....

 

[Chip G]

$250 a day for your HVX? I'd rent one of my hvx's out for $1k a month for Redusers to use as a behind the scenes / B-cam for thier features.

 

[Tim Naylor]

HVX rentals are usually 1-2 day affairs. At 1k a month, I should subrent from you.

 

[Chip G]

HVX rentals are usually 1-2 day affairs. At 1k a month, I should subrent from you.

Feel free to PM me, I do not have time nor want to deal with short term rentals. 30 days for $1k. I only use my cam 3 months out of the year, sits on the shelf for 9 months a year.

Chip

 

[Steve Freebairn]

Also, in my 20+ years of experience renting cameras, I have discovered the following corollary:
The productions that seek out the cheapest rental (or bargain you down the most) are also very likely the jobs where the gear gets beaten up the most, cables get lost, cases come back with muddy footprints all over them, etc.
They are also the jobs where lunch is likely to be late, and the check comes slowly.
The productions that are happy to pay a reasonable fee are the jobs where everyone and everything on set are treated with respect.
Not a hard and fast rule, but it seems to be true most of the time...
So, best of luck with your well thought out business plan. I'm sure it will work out great!
Cheers,
Harry

So true!

 

[Sven Seynaeve]

I think the biggest concern and problem is related to the actual retail price of the RED itself.

If the camera body would have costed at least 3 times what it's priced, it would'nt have lost any of its hype , but would have reduced the amount of sales in a obvious way without repaying the r&d Red has put into it, and would have made the current investors a little more assured in their investments. ( this was the first thought off my associates way back then)

It would have withhold all companies not used to deal with this kind of business (think about the way cars are marketed). No one expects a 18 year old to drive a BMW 5 ,7 or Mercedes E or S. But if you make it a 3 or C series, the potential working class could probably just afford it, or let them suppose they can, even if it's totally out of there range and if their forced to lower life quality.

We always want things cheaper, but this isn't always the best thing ...

I'm recently dealing with some packages for feature lenghts , and the rental prices of the Red seems to become an negative point and always seems to get the discussions nowhere after all due to the fact , that producers tend to believe, that they will get served wherever they'd like because of this failing market. I'd love to see Red do some intermediate in this whole wave and try to fix some things before everything gets to late, to many camera's are out there, and to many bankrupt companies start to appear.

to Rougedp I only have to say,::

why don't you just give it away for free, it would get you a lot more sparetime, and you could find other occupations to prove yourself and do some better to the world. and you would save a lot of guys a terrible headache that just made their investments with the only money they have, the families they have to take care off and the great ideas that were meant to be shot because their bills would be getting paid and they would still have some time to work out some great ideas.

 

[Sven Seynaeve]

And then we always forget why protectionism is invented...

 

[Ben Goldenberg]

You are quite right Stephen! Well said. I saw it happen too with BetacamSP owners, with F900 owners and now with RED. I hope most people bought their RED cameras to make exciting content, not bilk productions and aspiring filmmakers. Power to the artist!

Power to artist my arse. I spent my entire life savings on the camera to make my own films. I am renting it out to pay it off. Because of mental handicapps like you it is going to take me ten times longer to pay it off therefore NOT CREATING MY OWN CONTENT. The only people you are helping are people that shouldn't be shooting red in the first place. Shame on you!

 

[Lenny Manfred]

this thread just shows the variety of opinions out there. like the saying goes, opinions are like butt holes, everyone has one... and some are nastier than others.

i, for one, am thinking it is time for me to jump ship.

 

[Bing Bailey]

this is all hilarious. everyone was whooping it up when RED stuck it to sony and others by bringing an amazing camera in at a reasonable price but suddenly get upset when they are subject to the same competitive forces. if your a great dp with talent thats where you'll make money not off the camera.

nobody promised anybody a living from this. even if you charged 150 per day and some how managed lots of short engagements you'd still make 54k in a year. most businesses take 1 to 2 years to break even. why should the film business be any different. as for maintenance. if the renter breaks/damages anything during the rental insurance covers it if you are insisting on getting insurance and having the deductible as a deposit which most renters do.

 

[HDFilmtools]

This has been a really interesting thread to follow and although I’m not a RED ONE owner, as an independent editor who has rented his own equipment for the last 16 years, I thought I would add my 2 cents.

I bought my first Avid’s back in 1993. I was one of the first independent contractors in LA to own and rent my systems. I’m not going to bore you with all the prices on individual items back then, but as an example of the dramatic drop in the cost of gear, I paid $4,500.00, per drive, for 12 – 2 GB Avid removable drives! (Sheesh!) So if you've decided to deal with this stuff, get used to it.

But, In the beginning, I was able to charge 2,750.00 per week, per system. Ahhh, the good old days…

Unfortunately, very quickly, everyone and I mean flippin’ everyone in LA bought an Avid. Subsequently, from 1994 thru 1999 the prices crashed pretty bad. I thought often and hard about getting out, but I ultimately stayed in for 2 simple reasons.

1. I'm a gear junkie.
2. I love having the best gear to work on ☺

By the mid-90’s, several reputable rental houses sprung up and many system owners began to “pool” their equipment with them. These companies would “manage” people’s gear at something like a 40/60 split. Although you were getting a lower rate, the systems would often be rented, even when you weren’t working. As a freelancer who has lived through both busy and slow times and who had a lease to pay off, this was a lifesaver. This had the added benefit of stabilizing prices somewhat. Maybe this would be a possibility for a group of RED owners?

Anyhow, try to remember this; rates will ALWAYS vary, some deals will be richer than others and EVERYTHING is negotiable. It’s the nature of the business.

On balance, even when you consider the cost of upgrades and other expenses, my gear has been the best investment I ever made. (hey, I’m a filmmaker not a banker) But seriously, it has paid for itself over and over again.

There will always be those who low-ball prices. Many have already given solid advice on how to deal with this. My personal experience is that most of it boils down to your personal relationship with the client.

1. Be a Pro. – Know more about your equipment & related peripherals (even if you don’t own them) than your competition. You are renting your knowledge not just your gear.
2. Having said that - Don’t be an auteur, arrogant or a know-it-all.
3. The rental business is a SERVICE business. Cater to your clients. They will often pay the rate to people who make them feel secure and confident about
the quality of work, equipment and/or service.
4. Be in it for the long haul. Think long tail. You will still be able to get rental fees for your RED ONE, years from now.
5. Don’t bottom feed. Lot’s of crap settles at the bottom.

Thanks for letting me blather,
Larry Jordan
HDFilmtools.com