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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

KOMODO....

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Gabriel Scindian said:
It will not have larger pixels than the GEMINI low light monster as this is not an FF sensor.... unless I missed that part in an earlier post...
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Has it been stated that it isn't a FF sensor? The biggest benefit of RF is how it works with FF sensors as on the Canon R camera. And considering how cheap the Canon R is for FF photography, it wouldn't be that far fetched to see a cinema camera of similar tech, aimed at filming rather than photography.
However, I think that this will be a 30 fps maximum camera at 6K FF. Otherwise it would eat the Monstro market up. It might use the Hydrogen as a remote monitor as well as have support for current DSMC2 equipment.

However, I believe that the best way to figure out the specs of this camera is to look at what it's not. It is NOT any of the current DSMC2 cameras and therefore should not eat up that market. If it isn't any of those cameras and it is 6K and has a RF mount, what is it? It cannot be less than s35mm since the RF mount would be pointless for that, but it cannot be as good as the Dragon 6K or Gemini at 6K, because that would probably render those cameras useless. So it's either a heavily dialed back version of them, with much more compression and framerate capabilities.

It should be a camera that asks the question: "are you in need of a professional camera that does high framerates and low compression"? If the answer is "yes", then you want A 6K dragon or 5K Gemini. If the answer is "no", Komodo might be right for you.
If it's a 6K, RF camera that records to the Hydrogen, then it will be seriously limited and not worth the trouble if there are options like the Sony A7 IV on the market.
 
FF Komodo would cannibalize the 10x + priced Monstro. No matter how crippled.....
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
FF Komodo would cannibalize the 10x + priced Monstro. No matter how crippled.....
Click to expand...

not sure I buy that...
1- you have an entire group that can't afford Monstro and will never buy one
2- Every single Monstro owner will buy at least one Komodo
3- very few users who needs a Monstro...would buy a pocket camera instead.

Im in the later camp and will be ordering several myself.
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
FF Komodo would cannibalize the 10x + priced Monstro. No matter how crippled.....
Click to expand...

Have the FF DSLR lineup from Canon, Sony etc. killed the Monstro?
 
Greg M said:
not sure I buy that...
1- you have an entire group that can't afford Monstro and will never buy one
2- Every single Monstro owner will buy at least one Komodo
3- very few users who needs a Monstro...would buy a pocket camera instead.

Im in the later camp and will be ordering several myself.
Click to expand...
I don't think you realize how many young film makers maxed out their CCs, took loans and "begged, borrowed and stole " to purchase a Monstro. Probably half of the Monstros sold from my conversations with them. They would all switch to Komodo FF in a heart beat. Not to mention the depreciation would hit Monstro and the uproar of the owners. Your situation is not the only one RED has to consider... No FF for sure- it doesn't look even close to FF in pix....
 
Christoffer Glans said:
Have the FF DSLR lineup from Canon, Sony etc. killed the Monstro?
Click to expand...
You think? the price drops, the incentives, I'm sure that was all out of REDs good heart....
Besides, competition is one thing- RED has no say in that, making your own product that helps competition is another- RED has all say in that...
 
Christoffer Glans said:
Have the FF DSLR lineup from Canon, Sony etc. killed the Monstro?
Click to expand...

Do they offer RAW, non-proprietary media, and come from a brand like RED which is generally a decently respected name in cinema cameras? Blackmagic seems to be the only brand that doesn't care about crippling their cameras and prices their cams at whatever price they want.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
Has it been stated that it isn't a FF sensor? The biggest benefit of RF is how it works with FF sensors as on the Canon R camera. And considering how cheap the Canon R is for FF photography, it wouldn't be that far fetched to see a cinema camera of similar tech, aimed at filming rather than photography.
However, I think that this will be a 30 fps maximum camera at 6K FF. Otherwise it would eat the Monstro market up. It might use the Hydrogen as a remote monitor as well as have support for current DSMC2 equipment.

However, I believe that the best way to figure out the specs of this camera is to look at what it's not. It is NOT any of the current DSMC2 cameras and therefore should not eat up that market. If it isn't any of those cameras and it is 6K and has a RF mount, what is it? It cannot be less than s35mm since the RF mount would be pointless for that, but it cannot be as good as the Dragon 6K or Gemini at 6K, because that would probably render those cameras useless. So it's either a heavily dialed back version of them, with much more compression and framerate capabilities.

It should be a camera that asks the question: "are you in need of a professional camera that does high framerates and low compression"? If the answer is "yes", then you want A 6K dragon or 5K Gemini. If the answer is "no", Komodo might be right for you.
If it's a 6K, RF camera that records to the Hydrogen, then it will be seriously limited and not worth the trouble if there are options like the Sony A7 IV on the market.
Click to expand...

- It is not DSMC3
- It is not a replacement for DSMC2
- It is not 8k VV
- It is not a Dragon or a Helium or a Gemini or a Monstro Sensor
- It does not have an HDMI port
- It does not use proprietary media
- It is not a “module”
- It is not under $5k, unless you own a Hydrogen.
- It has no XLR ports
- It does not have a fixed lens
- It’s body does not weight more than 2 pounds.
- It is not larger than 4 inches in any dimension.
 
Monstro costs $40,000 just for the brain and near +/- $60,000 built out and can do 16-bit, 8K-FF resolution / 60fps @ 12:1 compression.

Gemini costs $19,000 for the brain and near +/- $30,000 built out and can do 16-bit, 5k-FF resolution / 60fps @ 6:1 compression.

Komodo will be offering 6k resolution at a price tag under +/- $7,000 (without Hydrogen).

So what does that tell us in the real world of R3D in corporate America with price-point?

Jared said it will not cannibalize DSMC2 and it is not a predecessor to DSMC3.... To my ears this leads me to the following assumptions...

1) 6k/30fps max OR severely limited compression & color depth (12-bit max) to not overstep DSMC2

2) (4k/120fps internal recording) - Canon and Sony have been dodging stepping up to the plate on this market with their gimbal favorable DSLR's for years (A7Siii /1dxiii?) in order to preserve FS7/C300. This I believe will be the true purpose and beauty of Komodo, with the ability for high frame rate gimbal work in such a small, affordable, and tough R3D package (B-Cam & Gimbal Cam for pro's / A-Cam for Prosumers)

2) Funny feeling this cam will be PRORES only.... WHY? (records to C-fast and will not use propriety media, full frame 6k resolution means high data rates, and most importantly how long has everyone been complaining that R3D's do not record high resolution PRORES internally and offer 4k SDI out. PRORES is the perfect solution for slicing down data rates without losing much on image quality. How good does 2k PRORES look recorded on DSMC2? Pretty stinking good surprisingly.... For this price point and position in the marketplace a lot of smaller productions (i.e. news, corporate ads, weddings, and docs) PRORES just makes sense for small productions who make their money off of reducing editing / production time. Many would praise PRORES over REDCode in post workflow. So would a lot of Colorists I deal with as crazy as that is. Furthermore, a lot of existing BM / Sony / Panasonic users also already own Small HD Monitors / Atomos recorders (hint hint 4k SDI out) and are already attuned to using PRORES flavors. In fact PRORES is pretty adored outside of the R3dcode community (i.e. Sony, Arri, Panasonic).

3)I could maybe see a new flavor of R3Dcode lite (Apple / Red collab) kind of like Pro-Res Raw for Sony / Panasonic or something for external recorders (4k SDI out) which may allow Komodo to achieve higher frame rates or better compression as you would with whatever is provided for internal recording. Hydrogen may have this capability built in somehow. I however will be very surprised if this camera offers full R3dcode and low compression rates at this resolution and price point.

Just my guess / 2 cents...
 
- It is not 8k VV

--
It can still be 6K VV

I would love a full-frame sensor, but APS-H or Super35mm would be great as well. Something like the 1.25x crop like on the Gemini would be nice as well.
 
Seems likely this will be a great budget camera with great features and an inferior sensor. Probably good for broadcast or budget shooters or as an inexpensive c-cam.
 
Andrew Reese said:
Monstro costs $40,000 just for the brain and near +/- $60,000 built out and can do 16-bit, 8K-FF resolution / 60fps @ 12:1 compression.

Gemini costs $19,000 for the brain and near +/- $30,000 built out and can do 16-bit, 5k-FF resolution / 60fps @ 6:1 compression.

Komodo will be offering 6k resolution at a price tag under +/- $7,000 (without Hydrogen).

So what does that tell us in the real world of R3D in corporate America with price-point?

Jared said it will not cannibalize DSMC2 and it is not a predecessor to DSMC3.... To my ears this leads me to the following assumptions...

1) 6k/30fps max OR severely limited compression & color depth (12-bit max) to not overstep DSMC2

2) (4k/120fps internal recording) - Canon and Sony have been dodging stepping up to the plate on this market with their gimbal favorable DSLR's for years (A7Siii /1dxiii?) in order to preserve FS7/C300. This I believe will be the true purpose and beauty of Komodo, with the ability for high frame rate gimbal work in such a small, affordable, and tough R3D package (B-Cam & Gimbal Cam for pro's / A-Cam for Prosumers)

2) Funny feeling this cam will be PRORES only.... WHY? (records to C-fast and will not use propriety media, full frame 6k resolution means high data rates, and most importantly how long has everyone been complaining that R3D's do not record high resolution PRORES internally and offer 4k SDI out. PRORES is the perfect solution for slicing down data rates without losing much on image quality. How good does 2k PRORES look recorded on DSMC2? Pretty stinking good surprisingly.... For this price point and position in the marketplace a lot of smaller productions (i.e. news, corporate ads, weddings, and docs) PRORES just makes sense for small productions who make their money off of reducing editing / production time. Many would praise PRORES over REDCode in post workflow. So would a lot of Colorists I deal with as crazy as that is. Furthermore, a lot of existing BM / Sony / Panasonic users also already own Small HD Monitors / Atomos recorders (hint hint 4k SDI out) and are already attuned to using PRORES flavors. In fact PRORES is pretty adored outside of the R3dcode community (i.e. Sony, Arri, Panasonic).

3)I could maybe see a new flavor of R3Dcode lite (Apple / Red collab) kind of like Pro-Res Raw for Sony / Panasonic or something for external recorders (4k SDI out) which may allow Komodo to achieve higher frame rates or better compression as you would with whatever is provided for internal recording. Hydrogen may have this capability built in somehow. I however will be very surprised if this camera offers full R3dcode and low compression rates at this resolution and price point.

Just my guess / 2 cents...
Click to expand...

Prores data rates are significantly higher than RAW for any respectable quality. On top of that, encoding is much more processor intensive, hence why a lot of RED cameras cannot do high resolutions of Prores. If anything it will be the opposite and RAW only.

The real limitation is it not being a DSMC2 or DSMC3 body and probably not having any good accessories for things like Audio, which limits it to more of a pure cinema usage.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
Have the FF DSLR lineup from Canon, Sony etc. killed the Monstro?
Click to expand...

Canon and Sony DSLRs are not TRUE FF cine cameras. They use trickery such as pixel binning. True 4k is 12mp. True 6K is 21mp. True 8K 36mp. Also the DSLRs do not shoot RAW even with an ATOMOS attached. However, you can still create something interesting with DSLRs, but keep in mind they still lack the Dynamic Range as well as other features REDs provide. Sony just introduced the 61mp A7R4 with 15 Stops DR yet it is only a 14bit photo cam with 8bit video. Most cams shoot 13-13.5 Stops for Vid @ 8-10bits with some dedicated bodies shooting 12bit internal/external. The new 100MP Fuji has 14 stops but it is also not raw. DSMC 2 are going to soon be replaced with advancements in sensor tech. RED One to the RED Epic body, DSMC 1 to the DSMC 2, notice how the tech is getting smaller and lighter. This new Komodo body may just be the testbed of the new DMSC 3 body design. It is up to us to test and give feed so the real DSMC 3 bodies will be just what the doctor ordered.
 
I think the real answer is within the name itself Very clever name when your wikipedia the name. Komodo would translate into Small Dragon...

tough because Jarred states its not a Dragon or a Helium or a Gemini or a Monstro Sensor I would guess it could be a cut out of there next gen sensor . like the raven was a 4.5k cut out if the Dragon this would be a 6k cutout of a new gen sensor that you could get in 8K for your DSMC2 body ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komodo_dragon

The Komodo dragon (Varanus komodoensis), also known as the Komodo monitor .. A member of the monitor lizard family Varanidae

Varanidae = Sounds like Variable ND (confermed)
monitor lizard family = External monitor called Komodo monitor

Young Komodo dragons are vulnerable and therefore dwell in trees, safe from predators and cannibalistic adults

The DSMC2 and Komodo will be a little cannibalistic to each other ..
 
My take on Komodo specs:

S35 sensor (that's what it looks to me from the 1st pic). Add a speed booster you get around FF and get a stop extra
OLPF Standard / non removable
15 stops
Dual ISO 800/3200
Redcode Raw/ProRes (not simultaneous)
6k (and 5k cropped) 24fps 5:1 / 50fps 10:1
4k cropped 120fps 12:1
2k cropped 240fps 8:1
NP-F batteries (@30W/h consumption)
Limited I/O options
Price $5,450
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
I don't think you realize how many young film makers maxed out their CCs, took loans and "begged, borrowed and stole " to purchase a Monstro. Probably half of the Monstros sold from my conversations with them. They would all switch to Komodo FF in a heart beat. Not to mention the depreciation would hit Monstro and the uproar of the owners. Your situation is not the only one RED has to consider... No FF for sure- it doesn't look even close to FF in pix....
Click to expand...

That probably isn't the smartest group of people... Switching would probably do them some good then.
 
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