Komodo feedback

[Christoffer Glans]

Maybe we should gather all the stuff we encounter to help Red with firmware changes, bug finding, and so on?
Had my Komodo for a week now and so far I'm digging it as my favorite Red camera ever, but, of course, there is some stuff I've encountered that I think could be addressed and tweaked. There's lots of stuff floating around with small and big problems people have, but no gathered discussion and feedback outside of the closed beta groups. Now that Komodo has a larger user base, it's even easier to spot stuff that could be improved.

Here's my current list:

Timecode
Setting internal TOD timecode and jam it sets the timecode to TOD, but as soon as I restart the camera, it goes back to 00:00:00:00 instead of TOD. TOD should be default whenever the camera starts if that's what we've set in settings.
Would also be nice to have timecode shown as normal, with frame counts as well.

Battery
Setting to change battery indicators to show time left instead of needing to go through menus.
When charging with the camera, it sometimes doesn't register that it should charge the batteries and we need to detach and re-attach the battery and cable before it kicks in.

Display
Decrease the vertical size of the stoplights, info, audio levels and record button in order to increase the image size slightly. Right now it's smaller than the width of the LCD screen. Maximizing the image width would make it easier since the image is already very small.

Framerates and formats
I believe these things are already in progress for future firmware, but just having basically two settings for framerates is very limiting. Being able to get any framerate up to its maximum is very important for many creative reasons, both for timelapse functions and cranking action like shooting at 20 fps to increase the speed of a 24 fps base.

Having more formats as well, including anamorphic (which I think have been mentioned coming). The 17:9 aspect ratio is odd, especially since 2:1 has been a popular aspect ratio for Red cameras and that is missing at this time.
Having a 2:1 option, anamorphic as well as getting 50 fps with a 25 fps timebase at 5K set to it's maximized aspect ratio for that framerate would make it easier for PAL users to get 50 fps without having to crop 6K widescreen.

Also, I miss HDRx which should only require a double in framerate. So for 24 fps, HDRx requires 48 fps, which is available in 5K. Getting both 48 fps and 50 fps would enable HDRx in resolutions that can double their framerates.

ProRes is only 422 HQ, is it possible to get 4444 that would dramatically increase its potential. However, the main problem right now seems to be that many get errors while trying to record ProRes. I have gotten it as well. Restarted the camera and it works again, but it's very unstable at this time.

Accessories
WiFi to Red control works very well. I do think there's a lot of frame drops and stutters. Any tweaks to improve the video feed would be good. Any plans for antenna improvements or approved antennas that are tested by Red to improve connectivity would be nice.

Komodo Link works well, but there are lots of micro stutters and frame drops when using it. In order to be worth it over getting a dedicated SDI monitor, the video feed needs to be at least as smooth as to not interfere with critical motion work.

I'd also personally like to see a Red bottom plate that expands the base down to make room for larger lenses so that the camera doesn't rest on the lens because the camera body is smaller than the lens. This would also make room for attachments of foot holder for supporting lenses. This would also open up support for a foot that locks the Canon speedbooster into place, which is an adapter that Red should test and check into the approval list asap before it's release.

Also think a DSMC BATTERY BELT CLIP made for Komodo would be a good addition to lower the weight of the camera for longer shoots. The PTAP can easily unplug.

Red Control
Fool control had the ability to use a vertical slider for focus in addition to the on-screen wheel. The vertical slider was superior for focus as it's much easier to control when holding the phone.
Many times you accidentally go into AF mode when trying to enter full screen with focus control.


That's my current feedback at this time. Maybe we could focus our thoughts and feedback in here in order to gather it in one place for the Red team. This is not intended for camera reviews or requests of changes to the camera body or new sensors and stuff that are basically impossible to do, but instead for improving the things that can be improved together with the Red team. Asking for more framerates at full resolution is such a request that keeps popping up and it is not possible, keep it rational.

 

[Phil Holland]

It's a good idea to post feature requests and they've certainly been getting them for the last 5 months from a lot of early people.

The one square thing to understand is Komodo won't likely ever have the full robust feature set of a DSMC2 body. It's a small and tight ecosystem. There's internal storage and maximum bandwidth constraints that likely won't allow a few of the things on your list.

That said, I'm certain there's more stuff coming along the way just like every RED camera before it getting firmware updates to add and tweak things.

In terms of mount adapters with the foot support, I've been using the Wooden Camera base plate mainly to support their mount and others.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

The one square thing to understand is Komodo won't likely ever have the full robust feature set of a DSMC2 body. It's a small and tight ecosystem. There's internal storage and maximum bandwidth constraints that likely won't allow a few of the things on your list.

Don't think any of the points I brought up is a request for it to become a DSMC2. But getting framerate options up to the cameras maximum should be standard, there's no hardware preventing this. Having the option to choose whatever fps you need up to 40 fps is a given in my opinion.


Further note I seem to get an "unapproved battery" message on a battery I bought from Red, while the other battery, that came in the same delivery works without a problem. How come? It's the same 955 battery type.
When I press the button on the battery it shows nothing, seems dead on arrival.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Got a weird glitch when switching between playback and recording; camera hanged and then it restarted. First time getting that.

 

[Christopher A. Bell]

Having more formats as well, including anamorphic (which I think have been mentioned coming). The 17:9 aspect ratio is odd, especially since 2:1 has been a popular aspect ratio for Red cameras and that is missing at this time.
Having a 2:1 option, anamorphic as well as getting 50 fps with a 25 fps timebase at 5K set to it's maximized aspect ratio for that framerate would make it easier for PAL users to get 50 fps without having to crop 6K widescreen.

How is 17:9 weird in the context of a cinema camera? That is the full/native DCI aspect ratio. HD and UHD are 16:9(1280x720, 1920x1080 and 3840x2160) and 2K, 4K, etc. are 17:9(2048x1080, 4096x2160, etc.).

 

[Christoffer Glans]

How is 17:9 weird in the context of a cinema camera? That is the full/native DCI aspect ratio. HD and UHD are 16:9(1280x720, 1920x1080 and 3840x2160) and 2K, 4K, etc. are 17:9(2048x1080, 4096x2160, etc.).

Was mistaken in that, true, it is proper DCI... but therefore it's still weird. Why not name it DCI? Or just 6K FF as on any other Red? No one says 17:9 as we do with 16:9, we say DCI.

 

[Stu Mannion]

My request is for Prores LT. It would be very handy when shooting long-form doco etc where card/HD space is at a premium.

Thanks

 

[Eric Haase]

Would love to see Peaking/Exposure tools show up on the video feed on the red control app. Also would love to see a piece of hardware like the Nucleus Nano controller that taps directly into the RED wireless SDK...basically does what the focus page on the Red Control app does but a hardware wheel.

 

[yann LHENORET]

Maybe we should gather all the stuff we encounter to help Red with firmware changes, bug finding, and so on?
Had my Komodo for a week now and so far I'm digging it as my favorite Red camera ever, but, of course, there is some stuff I've encountered that I think could be addressed and tweaked. There's lots of stuff floating around with small and big problems people have, but no gathered discussion and feedback outside of the closed beta groups. Now that Komodo has a larger user base, it's even easier to spot stuff that could be improved.

Here's my current list:

Timecode
Setting internal TOD timecode and jam it sets the timecode to TOD, but as soon as I restart the camera, it goes back to 00:00:00:00 instead of TOD. TOD should be default whenever the camera starts if that's what we've set in settings.
Would also be nice to have timecode shown as normal, with frame counts as well.

Battery
Setting to change battery indicators to show time left instead of needing to go through menus.
When charging with the camera, it sometimes doesn't register that it should charge the batteries and we need to detach and re-attach the battery and cable before it kicks in.

Display
Decrease the vertical size of the stoplights, info, audio levels and record button in order to increase the image size slightly. Right now it's smaller than the width of the LCD screen. Maximizing the image width would make it easier since the image is already very small.

Framerates and formats
I believe these things are already in progress for future firmware, but just having basically two settings for framerates is very limiting. Being able to get any framerate up to its maximum is very important for many creative reasons, both for timelapse functions and cranking action like shooting at 20 fps to increase the speed of a 24 fps base.

Having a 2:1 option, anamorphic as well as getting 50 fps with a 25 fps timebase at 5K set to it's maximized aspect ratio for that framerate would make it easier for PAL users to get 50 fps without having to crop 6K widescreen.

Red Control
Fool control had the ability to use a vertical slider for focus in addition to the on-screen wheel. The vertical slider was superior for focus as it's much easier to control when holding the phone.
Many times you accidentally go into AF mode when trying to enter full screen with focus control.

I agree with you on that Christoffer, I would add:

-the ability to display a Level (when mounting the Komodo on a car...)
-the ability to more nuances/more shutter speeds (or angles) 1/70th, 1/75th, 1/80th, 1/85th...
-the ability to have the shutter speed automatically double when you double the frame rate
-the ability to display a color-bar test pattern
-the ability to get 4 audio tracks recorded

 

[Christopher A. Bell]

I agree with you on that Christoffer, I would add:

-the ability to display a Level (when mounting the Komodo on a car...)
-the ability to a more shutter angles (or speeds)
-the ability to have the shutter speed automatically double when you double the frame rate
-the ability to display a color-bar test pattern

Wouldn't that be taken care of with a 180 degree shutter, since it will automatically set the shutter speed to double the frame rate(i.e: 24fps is 1/48s shutter, 48fps is 1/96s shutter, etc.)? Or am I misinterpreting what you're saying and you, for example, want to go from 24fps 1/48s to 48fps, but you would want your shutter to go to 1/192s instead of 1/96s?

 

[yann LHENORET]

Wouldn't that be taken care of with a 180 degree shutter, since it will automatically set the shutter speed to double the frame rate(i.e: 24fps is 1/48s shutter, 48fps is 1/96s shutter, etc.)? Or am I misinterpreting what you're saying and you, for example, want to go from 24fps 1/48s to 48fps, but you would want your shutter to go to 1/192s instead of 1/96s?

I realize I was not very clear.
I was only talking about shutter speed settings, not shutter angle.
Never shot on film so video/photo "speeds" are more natural to me.
Thanks a lot.

 

[Luke Wella]

50 fps with full sensor readout

50 fps with full sensor readout

and while you are at it. please give us that 50 fps full sensor read out for the european market. It can't be that hard to figure that out. Every other camera manufacturer is able to go even higher without any cropping.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

and while you are at it. please give us that 50 fps full sensor read out for the european market. It can't be that hard to figure that out. Every other camera manufacturer is able to go even higher without any cropping.

Every other camera manufacturer doesn't have a 16 stops global shutter and they don't do real RAW. Every other camera manufacturer also have much larger camera bodies with either room for in-expensive large processing boards, or expensive smaller boards.

I would just wish this question would stop. They might figure out how to get 5K 50 fps, but if you want high speed, or can't live with 50 fps in slightly under 5K, then it's better to look for something else. It is harder than you think to increase framerates post hardware lock.

 

[richiel]

First ....I have to say this is an amazing little camera. But if its possible I would love to have 50 frames 6k HQ, MQ or even LQ . Is this even possible? or are we maxed out on processing power, also Time lapse would also be nice. Thanks for such a great camera.

 

[Luke Wella]

Every other camera manufacturer doesn't have a 16 stops global shutter and they don't do real RAW. Every other camera manufacturer also have much larger camera bodies with either room for in-expensive large processing boards, or expensive smaller boards.

I would just wish this question would stop. They might figure out how to get 5K 50 fps, but if you want high speed, or can't live with 50 fps in slightly under 5K, then it's better to look for something else. It is harder than you think to increase framerates post hardware lock.

Oh Christoffer stop being such a red fan boy. be a bit more objective. the komodo is nowhere near 16 stops. I do own the komodo and freaking love it. compared to other cameras in that size range, it's a really good camera.
Well the "real Raw" argument does not apply. As you know red has other cameras using the same RAW format and they are able to shoot higher frame rates with full sensor read out. i do understand the concept of crippling a camera to not cannibalize the more expensive ones. that's faire game. but 50 fps should by any means be standard.
Increasing frame rates after hardware lock is quite possible. a whole lot of other camera manufacturers do that quite often (...yeah yeah global shutter)

 

[Phil Holland]

Increasing frame rates after hardware lock is quite possible.

Don't know what's absolutely possible with Komodo down the line, but generally in the RED world and pretty much every other camera that handles an actual RAW format the max frame rate is tied to the sensor readout, internal data rates of the camera, and general media write speeds. Don't know if Komodo can do beyond 40fps at full 6K with Global Shutter. It's reading entire 6K frames 40fps, which is a bit different than line scan.

We'll see. It's early days.

Generally other cameras that are doing some sort of full frame readout out to get higher FPS at larger formats aren't actually rolling RAW, perhaps partially debayered, which is a different conversation. You can do it via skipped or binned, but there's pros and cons to all that.

Might be interesting to see if RED can deploy a ProRes mode or whatever that tackles that, but generally higher end professional cams try to avoid binning and similar techniques.

It would be useful for sure, but usually not a part of cameras like these.

 

[Andy Maser]

Timecode...what if there was a way to sync TC from the Red Control app? Like how the Tentacle Sync app reads the TC from your phone and uses that to sync all of your Tentacle Sync devices. Having no usable TC (time of day) in the camera is generally a bummer.

Also wish we didn't have to dig into the menu to change resolutions. If I want to change resolution to grab a quick shot at higher framerate it's a bit fiddly as compared to how quick it is on DSMC2. Don't expect to have all of the features of my A camera, but this one doesn't seem like a major lift.

Also wish I could set the display to default to the exposure tools instead of whatever that other mode is. It's just an extra step at startup that would be nice to remove.

ALSO, I'm getting "unapproved battery" warmings with brand new, genuine Canon BP batteries. Annoying to have to click "accept" every time I boot. I just want to fire up and roll.

Overall, loving this little guy as a B cam. Really nice to have it lying around with a different lens on it, just like photographers carry 2 camera bodies with different lenses. And without quality compromise. Few kinks still, but nice work Red!

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Oh Christoffer stop being such a red fan boy. be a bit more objective. the komodo is nowhere near 16 stops. I do own the komodo and freaking love it. compared to other cameras in that size range, it's a really good camera.
Well the "real Raw" argument does not apply. As you know red has other cameras using the same RAW format and they are able to shoot higher frame rates with full sensor read out. i do understand the concept of crippling a camera to not cannibalize the more expensive ones. that's faire game. but 50 fps should by any means be standard.
Increasing frame rates after hardware lock is quite possible. a whole lot of other camera manufacturers do that quite often (...yeah yeah global shutter)

If you cared to read more posts by me you'd see I'm probably the least fanboy on this forum. I criticize when I find something that needs criticizing because I believe in it pushing the tech further. I'm such a non-fanboy that I go where the facts are and the fact here is that since Komodo, by its low price, has opened the flood gates for hundreds of newcomers to Red cameras, it has also brought a lot of people who just don't know or understand the technology, at all.

Komodo has around 16 stops, in my view and experience 14-15 usable stops. But the stops are there if you look at lab results of what the camera actually see. What your opinion is on the matter is irrelevant. You also seem to ignore the fact that stops are not the same as how DR is used. Both Sony, Arri and Red, through their color science, apply a curve for how to handle the stops. You don't want to get a stepping ladder, you want it to roll off, which means that 2-3 stops might be used for creating smooth and natural-looking roll offs both at highlights and shadows. So measuring stops need to account for usable and real stops.

When it comes to RAW and framerates, all sensors in Red's lineup have a base frame rate maximum for their specific setup, based on the possible sensor readout, its size and how powerful the processor is. What you seem to not understand is that when you have a small camera like the Komodo, you need to design a processing board, a sensor and all of the internals to work with less power draw and less heat, otherwise it won't function at all. The other Red cameras are larger, they have room for more components, larger processing boards and bigger cooling. To say that the other cameras can do it so why not Komodo is fundamentally ignoring basic engineering logic.

They didn't do it to cannibalize the lineup, at least, until you can prove such a conspiracy, it's just nonsense from ignorance of how engineering works. Personally, I can only guess the reasons, but I don't need to get any engineering PHDs to understand why the DSMC2 cameras are different in function from the Komodo.

And the reason other manufacturers have been able to increase framerates through firmware is because they a) released a camera in a basic initial state with the framerates already specified as coming or b) you are talking about DSLRs which never focus on video and usually just push their cameras as much as possible until they are basically useless due to overheating.

But I do agree that Red should investigate the possibility of at least getting 5K to 50 fps. Those two frames missing at that resolution might be achievable with some clever firmware tweaks. But as mentioned, I don't know the limitations of the sensor, just that it would make the camera a whole lot better for PAL people. I do not believe that Red can push its full 6K readout beyond 40 fps, or at least not in any significant way. 5K 50 fps however is a golden line and that would be much appreciated.

But if you want high speed, you need to look somewhere else, framerates cost, exponentially. The higher the base quality of a camera, the more expensive higher framerates get. The "base" quality of iPhone is pretty weak, so higher framerates aren't expensive. But getting a global shutter camera to go super high speed, like the Phantom, means you need to get upwards of $70000 - $100000 for the camera. Komodo isn't a Phantom camera and its base quality is among the highest to come by.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Timecode...what if there was a way to sync TC from the Red Control app?

I would like time of day to also stay set as timecode when restarting the camera. For some reason it resets to 00:00:00:00 every time it's restarted. I also want to be able to fast TC sync from the base menu and control app as you mentioned. Red cameras usually drift a lot so being able to fast sync would be good.

Also wish we didn't have to dig into the menu to change resolutions. If I want to change resolution to grab a quick shot at higher framerate it's a bit fiddly as compared to how quick it is on DSMC2. Don't expect to have all of the features of my A camera, but this one doesn't seem like a major lift.

I think you can set presets of settings in the camera if I'm not mistaken. If you need to change to 4K 60 fps fast and then back to 6K normal you might be able to set those as presets, but otherwise I agree with being able to set resolutions and framerates fast from the home screen.