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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Know the law's and ordinances where you film

Tom Chase

Tom Chase

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San Antonio, TX
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(Reposting this from my Facebook posts)
I wanted to share the importance of knowing the rules where your shooting. This weekend while shooting on the river the production I was working under was approached by a Park Police Officer on a bike and asked for the permit - while that was happening the officer asked one crew member about a "Lock Blade" knife in his pocket aka "buck" knife. He went on to say he could give this crew member a $500 ticket if he didn't make it disappear.
So we checked the Texas law which is below and figured the officer was being an ass and didn't know what he was talking about because Texas Penal Code dealing with Knives don't consider lock blades as illegal.

"Illegal knife" means a:
(A) knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;
(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown;
(C) dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard;
(D) bowie knife;
(E) sword; or
(F) spear.

But begin bugged about it - today I looked into City Ordinances and found the following. Sec. 21-17. - Certain knives prohibited generally; exceptions; penalty for violation.

(a)It shall be unlawful for any person to intentionally or knowingly carry on or about his person a knife with a blade less than five and one-half (5½) inches in length, which knife is equipped with a lock mechanism so that upon opening, it becomes a fixed blade knife.
(b)The above prohibition set forth in subsection (a) shall not be applicable to a person carrying such a knife:
(1)In the actual discharge of his duties as a peace officer, a member of the armed forces or national guard, or a guard employed by a penal institution;
(2)On his own premises or premises under his control;
(3)Traveling;
(4)Engaged in lawful hunting, fishing or other lawful sporting activity; or
(5)Using such a knife in connection with a lawful occupation, during such utilization.
(Code 1959, § 26-28.1)
This is a Class A misdemeanor with a possible 1 year jail term and/or $4000 fine.

My point is when shooting don't assume you know the laws in the area your shooting in google states, county and local laws to protect yourself and your crew.
 
Interesting, though, that the concerns here really have nothing to do with filming. Did you guys have a permit? Were there any problems or concerns arising from this?

I guess the standard response for something like the knife incident, since few of us are lawyers or that well versed in rather obscure laws, would be to say, "Yes, Officer, I will put it away. Thanks for the warning."
 
We did and we showed it to the officer - but prior to us showing the permit - he scanned all of us and the DP had the lock-blade which he had ligetmelly used serval times during the previous days shoot (this was the first scene of the day). And I think it does have a lot to do with filming. This was a very small crew and he was the only one carrying a "lock blade" but I've been on sets where 1/4 of the grips and camera dept. people had blades on them which would fall under this ordinance as illegal.
 
Glad to hear you had a permit. :-)

I guess I am trying to figure out the cautionary tale here. Should the crew members (or maybe the producer) anticipate all possible legal violations under local ordinances and plan accordingly? If possible, that's a great idea. But the problem is that people often don't know exactly what it is they don't know. How do you anticipate such a situation if it's beyond your knowledge at the time? As I said, I guess you just have to be prepared to be cooperative and humble.

And, apparently, the DP actually had used his lock blade legitimately, since it was illegal. :-)
 
@Terry,
I completely understand what your saying. In this case the cop came up on us very aggressively and was looking for a reason to push our buttons. In the case of the above mentioned scenario - we had been filming the day/night before just out of "city" limits and no issues. So yes who's responsibly is it to ensure that the crew knows the local laws? Our DP and his Camera Op, and AC weren't from here. Is it the producers? Is it the DP's (as a department head - shouldn't you know what your getting into) is it someone else. I saw this because I know there's a lot of low budget films that cut comers, but cutting corners where someone could go to jail isn't right.
 
So, looking back, what would have been the proper procedure to make sure this problem never happened?
 
Honestly I don't know, and I say that not as a cop out - I since finding out about this city ordinance I've spoken to many non-film crew friends who carry and all of them had no idea that was illegal. It's part of the problem - everyone to a point stated the TX state Penal Code law. So I would say if you have a knowledgable AD, UPM, or legal on your shoot - to include in the call the call sheets about what kind of "weapons" you can have on your person.
 
Except in that Ordinance:
(b)The above prohibition set forth in subsection (a) shall not be applicable to a person carrying such a knife:

(3)Traveling;

(5)Using such a knife in connection with a lawful occupation, during such utilization.

So it was not illegal in this situation.

Of course it's wise to pick your battles. Sadly being legal doesn't stop a cop with an attitude. It's nearly always better to comply, unless you really want to spend your time & effort dealing with the cop rather than getting on with your day.

In the UK, the law is pretty much the same. A multitool like a Leatherman or Gerber would also count as a "lock knife", but carrying it to and from work, and using it for work isn't illegal. At the same time I always try to take it off and stuff it deep in my backpack when travelling to/from work, on the slight chance I get stopped by a cop.

AND I generally take it out of my bag if not working!

On another note, I've never understood why a lock knife is considered more dangerous than a Swiss Army knife. Both can do equal damage!
 
I'll play devil's advocate for a moment, just to provide another possible perspective.

ericyoung said:
Except in that Ordinance:

(5)Using such a knife in connection with a lawful occupation, during such utilization.
Click to expand...

There is the rub in yellow. It may be that the cops were being dicks, but it could also be that they felt the knife was not being handled properly. If they noticed knife on display at any time and not strictly working they may have felt they had cause for concern. Law enforcement has a term for displaying a weapon. It is called brandishing. The definition is not vague, but an officer's application of principle may not be literal. Judgement plays a part so it can be subject to perception.

They were filming in a public place so it is possible that the officers were responding to a call and not just harassing people arbitrarily. That is not to suggest the complaint was not frivolous, but if there is a call of someone brandishing a weapon (particularly in a public place) officers have a duty to investigate.

Speaking of judgement, a complaint would have come from a citizen who may not be terribly discerning. :-) Folks tend to be excitable when they see a knife and a guy showing a co-worker his knife can be described as "waving a knife around in public". Cops definitely respond to that kind of call.
 
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Well the OP said it was in his pocket, but obviously it was visible to the extent that the cop could see it.

I imagine it was in his back trouser pocket? Where should a worker put their knife in between using it during his work?

Of course these laws are open to interpretation, but it's usually better to assume they can be interpretated to one's detriment, so better to err on the side of caution!
 
In the Ordinance though 5) referring to the above listed occupations (thats a police officer friend phrased it to me) i.e.: police; military and the such.

The thing was our DP didn't have it out - only the belt clip was exposed when the officer asked him if it was in fact a "Lock" blade knife.
 
The knife was in his pocket or on his belt at the time of the officer's arrival. That is why I speculate that they were responding to a complaint. Anyone who passed by prior to the officer's arrival might have called the police and that might explain why they were there looking for a knife at all.

If that be the case then they weren't there just to break your balls, they were there to investigate a complaint as they are obligated to do. The fact that they did nothing more than tell you to keep it under wraps seems to support the theory, don't you think?

The permit provided documented justification for some of you to be there in possession of such a tool. It saved you all a bunch of trouble I bet. Imagine what might have happened to your DP if you couldn't show that he was in fact working as a DP and had need of a knife to perform his work. Without the permit there is no film and he is, so far as the police are concerned, potentially just a person with a knife.
 
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@Scott no he stopped by because we had a dragon on a ronin kinda blocking a little of the pathway and he wanted to make sure we had a permit to be filming in a "city park" which is what the San Antonio Riverwalk is. It was a good couple minutes into the conversation that he asked the DP about the knife.

But the point I was trying to make about this post was that because we assumed that in Texas and per the Texas Penal code on what is an illegal weapon it shouldn't be an issue. That assumption cost us nearly 20 minutes of shooting time, which could of been avoided had we known not to bring a "lock" blade with us to that location.

Now we know, and knowing is half the battle (bad GI Joe reference)
 
I see.

I guess I should re-evaluate some of my own tools. :-)

Thanks for the head's up.
 
Note that the Texas senate just approved open-carrying of firearms. Just sayin'.
 
ericyoung said:
On another note, I've never understood why a lock knife is considered more dangerous than a Swiss Army knife. Both can do equal damage!
Click to expand...

heh, probably from decades of movies that show "badguys" using lock and switch knives.
And another reason to fight the war on cliches.
 
Chris Henze said:
What a weird place Texas is, where you can carry an assault rifle into a Diner but heaven forbid you have a small knife in your pocket that you use for work.
Click to expand...

You got that right. They have an openly gay female mayor of their largest city... Houston. Their two baseball teams were led by black managers until recently. One of their pro football teams is led by a black GM. Their Governor is wheel chair bound.

They have windfarms in abundance in the midst of their oil fields... (what's up with THAT!)... and get this... Austin, their state capital is littered with official signs saying "Keep Austin Weird".

Except for the carpetbaggers who have moved there since the oil boom, that state is heavily infested with a bunch of weird "Oners".
 
Where I live (Long Beach, CA) is very film friendly. The city has a dedicated film office and there are at least 2-3 shoots (from feature films, to episodic TV, to TVC's, to indie stuff) going on each week. While not a condition for a permit (unless it is a big shoot where streets may be blocked off or used) the film office normally suggests that the production company consider hiring off-duty LBPD officers for security. While it may crash the budget for run-n-gun or indie shoots on a shoe string to pay for an off-duty cop, I can tell you that the local cops won't mess with you when they see just one of their off-duty buds in uniform next to you. Sometimes you have to pay to play ...
 
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