Kinor - Russian 4K Digital Cinema Camera

[Dan Hudgins]

Software...

Software...

But we have learned that these cameras are as much software as hardware, and I suspect Red is far ahead in that realm.

They seem real, and have samples and software for download.

We have a Konvas and the motors are not holding up well, nor do they work as one would like because of the circuit boards. If you purchase a Kinor (tm) what would you do with it 10 years from now if it gets problems and you cannot get circuit boards, with no parts or schematics?

From what I have read here, with B16 the "RAW" compressed data in the camera files on RED ONE (tm) are now encrypted (?), so if RED Digital Cinema (tm) decides to impose a licence fee for footage shot or to decode the footage you cannot write your own software to read your own footage, at all if they go under, or will need to pay a high price, perhaps. I was talking to someone who said there is a rumor going around about some kind of licence fee or something for using RED ONE (tm) footage in feature films, I told him that I have not seen anything about that and that I thought he was mistaken, but with the data encrypted now (?), what direction is this going? Will there be a fee to use your own footage, how long will you be able to get repairs, how much will those cost?

What reasons would there be to purchase a Kinor? Better footage? Open raw data? Lower cost? More dependable?

I cannot figure them out, if they want to sell their cameras, why don't they have links to the features shot with it, or at least volumes of footage and interviews from the DP who have used it?

It is a govenment backed project for just for show?

Maybe someone could ask them what software they are using to edit feature films shot with their Kinor Digital Cinema cameras, does it run on Linux (tm) or something? Maybe it could be adapted to deal with RED ONE (tm) footage as well?

Here is a link to a forum, maybe someone who can read it can see if there is any good shooter info for Kinor 2K and 4K on it?

http://www.cinemac.ru/forum/

Babel Fish seems to make something of this,

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translat...cinemac.ru/forum/&lp=ru_en&btnTrUrl=Translate

But I do not see many posts about the Kinor on the linked to page?

 

[Energy Recruitment]

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Also Check out the Q&A section. This section has many of the company owners answering questions on many of the products that we have done reviews on. Please note it is not a chat area and any posts that are not to the point questions will be deleted. The Q&A section has been designed to be an area that helps make getting information and answers on third party accessories easier.

 

[Matthew Verkler]

From what I have read here, with B16 the "RAW" compressed data in the camera files on RED ONE (tm) are now encrypted (?), so if RED Digital Cinema (tm) decides to impose a licence fee for footage shot or to decode the footage you cannot write your own software to read your own footage, at all if they go under, or will need to pay a high price, perhaps. I was talking to someone who said there is a rumor going around about some kind of licence fee or something for using RED ONE (tm) footage in feature films, I told him that I have not seen anything about that and that I thought he was mistaken, but with the data encrypted now (?), what direction is this going? Will there be a fee to use your own footage, how long will you be able to get repairs, how much will those cost?

There is NO way that RED would require a license fee for feature films or anything else. That would be business suicide. This is one of the wildest rumors I have ever heard - where do people come up with this stuff?

By the way, the moon landings actually happened, and though I thought I had made it to the edge of the world, it was actually just Battle Mountain, Nevada. The earth really is round!

 

[Donald G]

While I never thought that Red would have the 4k market totally cornered forever, I don't believe this site is legit. Maybe the camera for real, but but I don't believe that the site is. It looks like a very bad joke.

 

[Andrew Benz]

"There is NO way that RED would require a license fee for feature films or anything else. That would be business suicide. This is one of the wildest rumors I have ever heard - where do people come up with this stuff?"

It was an idea that was posited a while back on CML. Quite the discussion ensued...

 

[Dan Hudgins]

Thats what I thought...

Thats what I thought...

There is NO way that RED would require a license fee for feature films or anything else. That would be business suicide. This is one of the wildest rumors I have ever heard - where do people come up with this stuff?

I got into a hot argument with the guy, he was convinced there was a hidden cost to using the RED ONE (tm) for making features, and implied there was a NDA or something, anyway its good to know that no body here has heard this one, maybe someone was giving him misinformation.

Companies sometimes do impose Licence fees for the use of updates though, has their been a promise of free conversion software "forever"?

 

[Mitch Gross]

While I never thought that Red would have the 4k market totally cornered forever, I don't believe this site is legit. Maybe the camera for real, but but I don't believe that the site is. It looks like a very bad joke.

Red has never had the 4K market "cornered." Both the Dalsa Origin and the Vision Research Phantom 65 were available for 4K shooting before the RED was released or even announced.

 

[Ivan Egorov]

These guys (Kinor) are for real, at least the DC2K camera and the hi-speed module (700fps) are used a lot in Russian production. Especially music videos.

http://www.cinexfilm.ru/work/Arhiv/savicheva/SAV_MALO_VCD.zip - this was shot with Kinor, for instance. Alas they only use 250 fps, but its still ok.
Its like couple years old or even older.

They site looks crappy, because there are like three of these guys, and all three of them are kinda like true old-school hardcore engineers, so they dont really care about the site, I guess, they're all deep into engineering the beast. That's what I'd say.

 

[Paul Kalbach]

Kinor has been around for a long, long time; makers of 35mm and 16mm film cameras, Kinor, Konvas, Krasnogorsk, etc. The Kinor 35H has been a standard for Russian feature films. I have a Kinor 16CX-2M and a Konvas 35 1M that I bought in St. Petersberg years ago. The Kinor 16CX-2M is very similar to an Eclair NPR. The Konvas 35 1M is sort of like a cross between an Arri 35-2C and an Eclair. Parts are hard to get, but http://rafcamera.com/ is a pretty good source. There's also a very active Email Discussion List similar to CML: http://lists.topica.com/lists/konvas/read

Russian optics are generally quite good. It's interesting to see Kinor stepping into the digital age; I'm curious to see where they go with it.

 

[Ivan Egorov]

It is not the same Kinor though. These are completely different people with the name Kinor. As far as I kno, they aint related.

 

[Donald G]

I have a Konvas 2M. Nice camera (sometimes) but I can't use the Konvas 2m lenses with the Red. Pity. I really like those Lenses........

 

[Paul Kalbach]

It is not the same Kinor though. These are completely different people with the name Kinor. As far as I kno, they aint related.

The history tab at the kinor.ru site lists the Kinor film cameras; looks like an evolution from the same company to me. They even offer to trade-in your old Kinor film camera for a discount on their new digital models...

 

[Joe Walker]

They site looks crappy, because there are like three of these guys, and all three of them are kinda like true old-school hardcore engineers, so they dont really care about the site, I guess, they're all deep into engineering the beast. That's what I'd say.

Wow, sort of like Cineform's site! :sarcasm:

 

[Pierce Cook]

I just want to offer a different perspective on this.

For me showmanship is hollow. Being in the film and advertising business has taught me not to take everything at face value.

Remember how in awe you were of that big corporation before you did a documentary for them? After getting to know people who run those corporations you realize they are just like you.

Companies like Kinor may not be your flashy types but I bet you, they have Russian equivalents of Jim and Graeme and all other geniuses at RED. If you don't believe me call Jarredsky on...

I can understand this. By no means do I wish to suggest their efforts are in vain, as it looks impressive. I'm sure they have talented people as well - I just thought they could expand their reach with a better web presence. None of my business, but good luck to them just the same!

 

[Larry McKee]

I have a Konvas 2M. Nice camera (sometimes) but I can't use the Konvas 2m lenses with the Red. Pity. I really like those Lenses........

Sure you can. Just get in touch with Douglas Underdahl of Long Valley Equipment at longvalley at embarqmail dot com. He makes an OCT-19 mount for the RED.