Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

KETCH ROSSi

Vadim Bobkovsky said:
What's the status of the next part of KETCH ROSSi Brazil RED EPIC workshop? Should we expect 4th video anytime next week or so? I found the past three videos very interesting and I always enjoy you talking about cinema gear and all the related stuff.
Click to expand...


Glad you have Vadim,

the last two vidoes of the Brazil workshop are coming, the boys in Brazil have been busy but are getting this last two vidos ready, and as soon as they get uploaded on Vimeo, Ill post them here.
 
No worries at all Ketch. We're all passionate about these topics and everyone, myself included, wants to make themselves heard. It always makes for fun and lively debate - the great thing is : We're all correct.. that's the beautiful thing. That's what I love about the film game: There is no wrong answer. Whatever ideas help us get through the day and improve the message of the film are the right ones. I'm sure we'll all produce interesting work for audiences using our respective techniques. Me with my hazy vintage fetish and you with your vibrant vivid images. That is your style: That is what makes your work your own. I like that about the world. Peace Ketch.

James
 
At the risk of over simplifying an endeavor like Cinematography that often finds its most compelling expression in its nuanced complexities, let me see If I can put Ketch's & James' notes in context.

Ketch likes to get to post with the most image information possible, even if the creative direction ends up tossing a lot of it. Options good.

James thinks in terms of the creative challenges in finding the most direct route to the intended destination. Choose your goals, who cares about options you're not pursuing.

The majority opinion amongst colorists is that following the intentional "feel" of the original photography is the easiest and most high fidelity route to the final look.

Insert some version of "there are many path's to the kingdom" here just to acknowledge the breadth of image influencers along the way. That said, technological and market forces are re-shaping the image creation landscape in fundamental ways.

The RED philosophy of high resolution RAW with moderate compression posits a "processing step" that is both an extension of practical photography techniques and a sub-set of post. With film origination this processing step was part of dailies color and/or telecine and could be subtle or extreme depending on how one wanted to "build" the look (i.e., underexpose and push process). With video cameras (CineAlta, VariCam, etc) one could employ various on camera settings (knee, pedestal, matrix, etc) to manipulate the image in ways more typical of post treatments but done on the day to take advantage of the far greater DSP bit depth available in the internal processing vs the typically 8 bit signal output to tape.

Arri took a different approach and created a camera that offers a digital substitute for film starting with a color matrix that attempts to match film's chemically driven colorimetry first and actual scene color second. They also decided to keep resolution down to avoid having higher compression ratios. The ancillary benefit of the lower resolution is a finished image that looks more like one typically sees film reproduction in the real world (yes, low ISO film stock can resolve close to 4K from a high resolution scan but outside of the post suite who sees that version?). The Alexa is arguably a better fitting peg for the 2012 hole but with limitations it cannot escape both in resolution and color bias.

So, are you someone who wants to create a monster image with tremendous amounts of real image information? Can you accept the fact that you are entering a process that still has critical steps ahead? Does the idea that your images will perform well on the next generation of display tech matter to you? If you're nodding you are probably going to be drawn to the Epic and if you have access to lenses like the MPs that capture so much real detail and contrast you just might be on Ketch's bandwagon.

OTOH, if you want to make your talent look the way they are used to seeing themselves right on the set monitors, your images to look like they were shot on 5219 and your lighting/filtration choices to have familiar results then perhaps you will prefer the Alexa. In another thread we addressed the issue of the desirability of the Alexa's highlight roll-off characteristics vs other digital cameras and several of us pointed out that with the right curves one can match that "shoulder" with (well exposed) Epic footage. If your reaction is; wouldn't it just be easier if was already that way? In a majority of cases that's a valid point, but what about the times that isn't the look you wanted?

Perhaps the real issue is that camera systems are used by humans who inevitably bring their own assumptions, biases, artistic sensibilities, financial imperatives, etc to the enterprise. Perhaps the old saw about "horses for courses" should be expanded to "use the camera system that best supports the project at hand AND your preferred process". Just sayin'

Cheers - #19
 
BRANDON JAMESON said:
KETCH ROSSi Brazil RED EPIC workshop is a generous and very well presented series.

Well done, Ketch.
Click to expand...

My pleasure Brandon, glad you think so, I enjoy doing them, and the last 2 Parts will make this 5 Part series much more enjoyable with the Making of showing the actual gear being used, but the NEW "EPIC in FASHION" video I'll be shooting here in Rome will take it all to a new level as it will be specifically made as a HOW TO video form beginning to end.


James T Mather said:
No worries at all Ketch. We're all passionate about these topics and everyone, myself included, wants to make themselves heard. It always makes for fun and lively debate - the great thing is : We're all correct.. that's the beautiful thing. That's what I love about the film game: There is no wrong answer. Whatever ideas help us get through the day and improve the message of the film are the right ones. I'm sure we'll all produce interesting work for audiences using our respective techniques. Me with my hazy vintage fetish and you with your vibrant vivid images. That is your style: That is what makes your work your own. I like that about the world. Peace Ketch.

James
Click to expand...

Yes James we sure, and thank God for that.

Correct, there is absolutely no wrong way of doing this, I will only strongly argue FACTS, whit any one, no matter whom He She is, or what He She might have achieved in their lives, if Peter Jackson or James Cameron themselves say something about a Camera or Lens that is wrong and I know for fact they are, I will correct them, rest assure.

But if we are talking about why a Filmmaker chooses that camera vs. the other or that lens vs. the other, then each, we have the right to choose what best fits our liking and or monetary availability to make our project, I in fact seen iPhone shot Shorts which were fantastic, of course the level of noise was insane on a large Cinema Screen, but that was the intend look of the Filmmaker which He actually tested this before shooting his piece, and we can't say, He is wrong on doing that, as that was the choice made by him to tell that story and give it that look, but I can of course argue or suggest that if He had shot that project on Epic, He could now have an original 4K piece which would be a little more Future proof, and He could also have added Grain to it and gotten a very similar look, even so not exactly the same, as there is a huge difference form Under sampling and Oversampling, and stretching Pixels which bring a high level of differentiated and particular type of Noise and image artifacts.

But at the end you are absolutely right, there is simply on WRONG WAY to do this, and this I do love, you can say that you din't like the story, but you can't say that He She did it wrong... ;)


Blair S. Paulsen said:
At the risk of over simplifying an endeavor like Cinematography that often finds its most compelling expression in its nuanced complexities, let me see If I can put Ketch's & James' notes in context.

Ketch likes to get to post with the most image information possible, even if the creative direction ends up tossing a lot of it. Options good.

James thinks in terms of the creative challenges in finding the most direct route to the intended destination. Choose your goals, who cares about options you're not pursuing.

The majority opinion amongst colorists is that following the intentional "feel" of the original photography is the easiest and most high fidelity route to the final look.

Insert some version of "there are many path's to the kingdom" here just to acknowledge the breadth of image influencers along the way. That said, technological and market forces are re-shaping the image creation landscape in fundamental ways.

The RED philosophy of high resolution RAW with moderate compression posits a "processing step" that is both an extension of practical photography techniques and a sub-set of post. With film origination this processing step was part of dailies color and/or telecine and could be subtle or extreme depending on how one wanted to "build" the look (i.e., underexpose and push process). With video cameras (CineAlta, VariCam, etc) one could employ various on camera settings (knee, pedestal, matrix, etc) to manipulate the image in ways more typical of post treatments but done on the day to take advantage of the far greater DSP bit depth available in the internal processing vs the typically 8 bit signal output to tape.

Arri took a different approach and created a camera that offers a digital substitute for film starting with a color matrix that attempts to match film's chemically driven colorimetry first and actual scene color second. They also decided to keep resolution down to avoid having higher compression ratios. The ancillary benefit of the lower resolution is a finished image that looks more like one typically sees film reproduction in the real world (yes, low ISO film stock can resolve close to 4K from a high resolution scan but outside of the post suite who sees that version?). The Alexa is arguably a better fitting peg for the 2012 hole but with limitations it cannot escape both in resolution and color bias.

So, are you someone who wants to create a monster image with tremendous amounts of real image information? Can you accept the fact that you are entering a process that still has critical steps ahead? Does the idea that your images will perform well on the next generation of display tech matter to you? If you're nodding you are probably going to be drawn to the Epic and if you have access to lenses like the MPs that capture so much real detail and contrast you just might be on Ketch's bandwagon.

OTOH, if you want to make your talent look the way they are used to seeing themselves right on the set monitors, your images to look like they were shot on 5219 and your lighting/filtration choices to have familiar results then perhaps you will prefer the Alexa. In another thread we addressed the issue of the desirability of the Alexa's highlight roll-off characteristics vs other digital cameras and several of us pointed out that with the right curves one can match that "shoulder" with (well exposed) Epic footage. If your reaction is; wouldn't it just be easier if was already that way? In a majority of cases that's a valid point, but what about the times that isn't the look you wanted?

Perhaps the real issue is that camera systems are used by humans who inevitably bring their own assumptions, biases, artistic sensibilities, financial imperatives, etc to the enterprise. Perhaps the old saw about "horses for courses" should be expanded to "use the camera system that best supports the project at hand AND your preferred process". Just sayin'

Cheers - #19
Click to expand...


You are absolutely right Blair, and this is what is really also about, understanding the differences in Acquisition and possibility of the final Material, then choosing which is best fitted to tell the story you want to tell, and making sure that your knowledge of the tools you are using gives you and your team the absolute most amount of freedom of manipulation to get the best result possible out of your final delivery, but also making sure that you don't ever limit yourself to only ONE look, but you give yourself Room to change your mind and experiment later on with the Material you have, even so initially you might have seen some thing different, if you want at the end you need to be allowed to be able to change your mind, and manipulate the images to allow you to bring that new look to the Delivery, and been able to do this without making the image suffer.

Image for me is everything and I sacrifice Nothing, for this I always start with the Knowledge as best as I can of the Tools I'll be using, and insure that I start with the best tool I can afford in order to allow me to bring to the table the best image possible to begin with.
 
Luca Immesi said:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...ry-official-trailer-with-Alejandro-Jodorowsky :)
Click to expand...

Luca Immesi said:
This is the official trailer of our completed movie. It's the first movie shot on Epic in Italy and one of the first in Europe. It's about Psychomagic and the father of Psychomagic Alejandro Jodorowsky plays a cameo in it. Moby commercially licensed us 5 songs. We finished the movie in late August 2012 and we signed an agreement with well known French sales agency Reel Suspects for international distribution and in the end we got Italian regional financial funds. For sales inquiries please contact Matteo Lovadina. Email m AT reelsuspects.com
It's been a great adventure making this movie and now that it's finished I'd like to thank many, many people that helped us, especially our executive producer, my friend Ketch Rossi who believed in our project when it was just an idea. If you believe it, it happens. Just you have to believe it as if it was the last thing you did in your life. Love.

Click to expand...

It has been a pleasure insuring that you guys had the best tools available to make this movie, and even so you could have it filmed with your R1 and RPP's I do believe firmly and strongly, that because time and chance made it so that I was there with an Extra EPIC M and a set of Master Primes to give to you for use in this project, it made it that much better, and I love the way you guys captured the essence of the story, no matter if some one might like it or not, the imagery is simply Beautiful, great Work Luca!!
 
Rocco Schult said:
Ketch, I thought you sold your Masters ?
Or do you have multiple sets ?-)
Click to expand...

Only had that one that I sold, this movie was shot before I sold them obviously, but might need to buy back an other set of MP's since Leica is so slow in their deliveries of the Leica S. Cine Primes... ;)

I will also be testing the MKII of the Iluminas to see if they did get right the Mechanics of this other wise great Super Speed glass.
 
Will Keir said:
Any films you can think of shot well on MPs?
Click to expand...

The amount of compression is ridiculous on uploads, but I promise you will that if you were ot see this shot on a 4K motor you would piss your pants... Shot on Master Prime 75mm.


246794_3711792233968_1084792866_n.jpg
 
Ketch,

do you have a 4K at your office already?
If yes, any model you can recommend?

Or are you waiting for the RED Projector too, like we do?

Cheers,
Axel
 
Axel Mertes said:
Ketch,

do you have a 4K at your office already?
If yes, any model you can recommend?

Or are you waiting for the RED Projector too, like we do?

Cheers,
Axel
Click to expand...

Testing two 4K TV/Monitors right now, but definitely awaiting the RED 4K+ Laser Projectors... ;)

Too early to make any recommendations also prices are all over the board, form 11k to 80k, so more then which is the best some times once could be forced to see what price range is reasonable at this time.

I'll keep you guys posted on the findings, and if once the RED 4+ Laser Projector comes out, will be still as good as one of this offerings or not.
 
KETCH ROSSi said:
Testing two 4K TV/Monitors right now, but definitely awaiting the RED 4K+ Laser Projectors... ;)
Click to expand...

Can you share which models you are looking into right now?

I've seen the Toshiba and the Sony Bravia, as well as the Eizo and the Eyevis. The Eizo looked amazing, the Toshiba was quite OK. The Bravia was stunning, but 84" is fairly large for an editing environment :)
Not yet the LGs and whatever else there is.

Its a shame that the 4K 30" panels are still not sold in quantities. The manufacturers list them since at least 2 years now :(

From the price expectations, the RED Projector may outperform them all. Maybe it would be a consideration for RED to build a back pro system, as this could become fairly competitve with the convenience of a "TV".

I've seen the 62,000+ Lumen Christie Laser. Wow...
 
Axel Mertes said:
Can you share which models you are looking into right now?

I've seen the Toshiba and the Sony Bravia, as well as the Eizo and the Eyevis. The Eizo looked amazing, the Toshiba was quite OK. The Bravia was stunning, but 84" is fairly large for an editing environment :)
Not yet the LGs and whatever else there is.

Its a shame that the 4K 30" panels are still not sold in quantities. The manufacturers list them since at least 2 years now :(

From the price expectations, the RED Projector may outperform them all. Maybe it would be a consideration for RED to build a back pro system, as this could become fairly competitve with the convenience of a "TV".

I've seen the 62,000+ Lumen Christie Laser. Wow...
Click to expand...


Sony 84" and a second I can not mention at this time, its a Proto, an amazing one I might add, but the Sony is pretty slick and actually 84" is not that big, even for editing, when you consider that it needs to be kept at a certain distance, the Proto is actually BIgger, MUCH Bigger... ;)

But price wise none of this can compete against the RED 4K+ LASER Projector, so will not make a purchase till we get one in here and see if Jim and Jarred's claims of this new Projector being Editing Color Grading Capable Holds up, including 3D... ;)


Oh, and btw, there is already a 32" 4K Display coming, just tested one of those two weeks ago too... ;)
 
KETCH ROSSi said:
a second I can not mention at this time, its a Proto, an amazing one I might add, but the Sony is pretty slick and actually 84" is not that big, even for editing, when you consider that it needs to be kept at a certain distance, the Proto is actually BIgger, MUCH Bigger... ;)
Click to expand...

How big ketch? maybe give us a Range...;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top