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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Keeps on climbing......

A

Anthony Gratl

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....the barrel leak estimates that is.
Now BP is gathering 15000 barrels a day, and it's still not capturing half.
CNN is now saying the estimates are 'roughly' 25,000 barrels a day.
So that means it's probably 5 times that:emote_headwall:

All BS from BP, and the spin control machine is at full speed, people.
The american people need to stand up to corporate and media control. Now.

This is a catastrophe! Take back your country!:attention9ha:

:mad5::mad5::mad5::mad5::mad5::mad5::mad5::mad5:
 
I saw a report that said the pressure at the well head is something like 13,000 psi!
That's why the top kill couldn't work.
Any guesses as to how much oil 13,000 psi can push through a 21" pipe in a day?
 
Who is ready to kill demand for this ecological disaster that is killing us now, and will kill your children and grandchildren?

Its not just the gas in your car, its the oil fertelizes the food you eat, its the deisel that powers the trucks that bring your consumer goods to town, its the dirty crude that powers the ships that bring you stuff from China, its the plastic that is everywhere in your life. we are addicted to oil.
 
Evolve said:
....the barrel leak estimates that is.
Now BP is gathering 15000 barrels a day, and it's still not capturing half.
CNN is now saying the estimates are 'roughly' 25,000 barrels a day.
So that means it's probably 5 times that:emote_headwall:

All BS from BP, and the spin control machine is at full speed, people.
The american people need to stand up to corporate and media control. Now.

This is a catastrophe! Take back your country!:attention9ha:

:mad5::mad5::mad5::mad5::mad5::mad5::mad5::mad5:
Click to expand...

If virtually all of our manufactured goods coming from China, or the Iraq war lies, or the banking disaster, or.... couldn't wake them up I'm not sure it is possible. Complacency runs extremely deep.
 
A friend of mine is an engineer at Michelin. He says that if we could shift most of the urban population to either electric or plug in hybrids their figures show it would reduce total oil consumption in this country by about 75% as most of it is consumed in less than 30 mile daily round trips.
There are even more promising clean fossil fuel free technologies going commercial in the next two years that will eventually make coal, oil, and nuclear economically non-competitive. That is what will make the real difference. Quit using fossil for fuel for any purpose. Mind you it will take a decade or two to completely replace the existing power infrastructure, but most fossil fueled electric plants could be converted relatively easily an quickly.
 
David Rasberry said:
A friend of mine is an engineer at Michelin. He says that if we could shift most of the urban population to either electric or plug in hybrids their figures show it would reduce total oil consumption in this country by about 75% as most of it is consumed in less than 30 mile daily round trips.
There are even more promising clean fossil fuel free technologies going commercial in the next two years that will eventually make coal, oil, and nuclear economically non-competitive. That is what will make the real difference. Quit using fossil for fuel for any purpose. Mind you it will take a decade or two to completely replace the existing power infrastructure, but most fossil fueled electric plants could be converted relatively easily an quickly.
Click to expand...

It seems to me that we should be doing a massive jobs program creating a national infrastructure of electric plug in, battery exchanges, etc. (i.e. hundreds of downtown parking spaces with plug ins, highway battery exchange stations, etc.); plus geothermal plants; wind generation, hydrodgen fuels, etc..

In the long run we may have to do offshore drilling, since there are some things that petro fuels are particularly good for (jets, rockets, among others) but we don't need to waste it on day to day driving - we should be saving it as a long term strategic resource.

These infrastructure programs would help the jobs situation in the short term, and energy payoffs in the long term - and most of them would be creating manufacturing here in the US. I understand that many of these are not economically competitive right now (particularly if you don't count the environmental damage from things like the oil spills, coal mining, etc.) but they are a lot better than simply pumping money into the unemployment and welfare systems to help people that would be willing to work, and a WHOLE LOT better than spending a trillion dollars on bank bailouts, ill-conceived foreign wars, etc.
 
If I were POTUS I would order the construction of at least one new Nuclear Power Plant in each state to begin today. I would ask the French, the world leaders in this technology, for help, if necessary. This would also create real jobs and stimulate the education of real professionals.
 
Good suggestions, makes absolute sense to mobilize to act in a rational way to our slow-death self-destruction -- but denial isn't just a river in Egypt, and I would say ranks about third in the hiearchy of human impulses right after thirst and hunger and maybe before sex.

We aren't so much addicted to oil as to lifestyle. People kill themselves and others to maintain lifestyle. Sacrifice requires both leadership, and alas, it seems "an enemy" -- and if the enmy is "us" -- it's hard to get up a lot of steam among the masses.

And as we now have the leadership of "hope" in the form of a very eloquent and elegant and weak and corporatist president who is a decent and well-intended, but doesn't really have a vision or any fire in the belly to "rock the lifestyle boat" or the powers that be in any way, and because we have a very fragmented and beset and time-deprived populace (who is also by and large decent), and we have the distraction and grief of two pointless wars (which we know are mistakes) and we are in debt up to our noses both individually and as a nation, now is precisely the time we need to make some serious moves in the right direction.

If the president suddenly "found himself" and became a real leader (sort of ala FDR), we might be able to turn the culture and the ship of state in the direction of its underlying inventiveness, generosity and shift the upsidedown reward system from the corruption of the military-industrial-lobbyist-corporate complex and our excessive financialization, back to real people who do real and positive things.

I'm pretty certain we won't turn things around by continuing to be an unsustainable "consumerist" culture dominated by a lobbyist corporate-political elite intent on militarism -- but instead become a more sustainable creative inventive culture that recognizes the necessity of a greater harmony with nature -- which is the source of all so-called "wealth." Without a healthy in balance mother nature, there will be no economy or "lifestyle" for most of us for very long.
 
Peter Hodgins said:
If I were POTUS I would order the construction of at least one new Nuclear Power Plant in each state to begin today. I would ask the French, the world leaders in this technology, for help, if necessary. This would also create real jobs and stimulate the education of real professionals.
Click to expand...

There are a few minor problems with nuclear power (in addition to the mythology that it produces clean energy and emits no co2's or cancer clusters around the plant).
1. It's expensive to build (no plant has ever been built on budget)
2. It's expensive to maintain
3. The amount of CO2 required to build the thing (ie. concrete) is equivalent to what you save in its non-co2 output versus a regular coal fired plant
4. We don't know what to do with the spent uranium!!! BIG PROBLEM!!!!(except put it into munitions, where it kills and poisons other populations and ecosystems)

Lifestyle doesn't equal quality of life. IMHO it's really quite a simple question that people need to ask themselves. Wouldn't you rather spend more time with your kids, work a little less, and be more relaxed with a little less money, instead of having the brand new car and the starbucks latte?

There are simple and ancient solutions right in front of us:

SOLAR AND WIND !!!!!! DUH!!!!!!!

And to those folks who say windmills are an eyesore and that solar is expensive, and have organized (with help from coal and gas companies), i say enough (as in STFU) There is no time to waste. We've got less than a decade left to right this crazy boat, and the noise needs to stop. Everyone needs to pull in the same direction.

Algae based fuels, massive transit systems, limiting freeway usage, etc etc etc.....that's how we will shift. The question is will it be willingly, or do we wait until we hit the brick wall with full force before change happens (at that point it'll be much more difficult to initiate)

And no, I'm not putting all of my faith in technology to save us. That wouldn't be prudent, cause if it doesn't, we're fucked...if we aren't already.

Update: now the admiral allen in charge of whatever is saying that they're going to be doubling the amount of oil that they're pumping to the surface....hmmmm that's 30,000 barrels then. Funny, i thought the spill was only about 5,000 barrels a day.
The spin is just absolute BS on this one. Has been from day one.

The most compelling stuff are the interviews with the engineers and crew about what happened on board the drill rig on that fateful day.
 
:beer:

that's awesome. now the government needs to subside R & D by its own departments to make efficient solar panels that are built in your community that you can install on your roof in order to power it. And that cost should be amortized on your energy bill over 10 years.
course, we still have to figure out the whole energy consumption to make the car end of it. Ford built a car in the 20's that was made of hemp. Beat it with a sledgehammer to demo its strength as i recall......
 
Before you get too excited about using technology to cure the effects of technology, don't forget that nuclear hardly is 100% foolproof. Some of you probably don't remember Three-Mile-Island or Tschernobyl (not that I'm so very old!). Just as a reminder of when things go awry with a nuclear power plant, here's a link to some pictures and a video report on the ghost town or Pripyat.

http://forums.filefront.com/s-t-l-k...-trip-chernobyl-pictures-56k-ultra-death.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hvy4VZ8AI-s&feature=player_embedded#!
 
Evolve said:
There is no time to waste. We've got less than a decade left to right this crazy boat, and the noise needs to stop. Everyone needs to pull in the same direction.
Click to expand...

What's going to happen in less than a decade? I'm familiar with the Mayan calendar, but not this one.
 
c'mon guys its not that simple



electric plants burn oil


its easy to burn oil or more oil as power is needed ... im sorry you cant save electricity it has to be created as needed

wind and solar wont work by themselves... wind is not steady enough and would cause surges and rolling black outs because the power plant can not control increases or decreases as needed


they have to manually burn fuel and its a very hard hot job to open up those vents as the electric needs increase


you can cut down but theres no viable GREEN energy to take it's place

thats just the facts

my father has worked at an electric plant for over 25 years i have had many conversations with him about this.


so my point is if we all buy electric cars that will make the electric companies burn much more oil.
 
Jean, 3 Mile Island was no big deal. You get zapped more walking out to your car. Our Sun is Nuclear 24/7 you can't stop the radiation. The accident in Russia was a mess of Human error- today that can not happen again. In the almost 70 years of Nuclear energy the big accidents you can count on your hand. Filmmakers shoot horror movies at Tschernobyl and you can buy souvenirs at Hiroshima's ground zero spot. No giant monster ever showed up. The US and the UN just let China sell Nuclear tech to Iran so what is up with that? It is all a scam, we can't have Nukes but we will bend over backwards so North Korea and Iran can. Obama let this rig drill in deep water under his watch. They signed off on the BS studies that now prove BP nor Obama didn't have a plan B if the shut-off valve failed. Why would you OK that plan? Oh BP was a big donor to your presidential run. He claims he was in charge from day one and the Government has said BP is doing everything the Government has asked them to do so far without question. This accident happen on FEDERAL CONTROLLED WATERS. The real problem is we should not be drilling that deep as there is only one tested way to cap that leak and it involves a small nuclear bomb. Now this has been done before by the Russians and the longer we wait to act the worse off we and the whole world will all be- some reports said it could be till Christmas that the pipe is replaced. The US under Obama will probably not use the nuclear option on this leak for political reason but truth be told they could of stopped this 50 days ago if they had some balls. Now it just wasting time on Lawyers, Obama's first response and environmental impact studies, weeks wasted on those before giving the OK to put sand bars up the coastline. This is a really big mess. there is no time to BS. Action is needed. Action is not what we are getting. Proof that Government is no answer, all they can do is FINE$ FINE$ FINE$. When BP goes belly-up the US taxpayer will get stuck with the bill and Bush with the blame. History repeats itself again.

Couldn't the USA just park a NAVY sub on top of the pipe crushing it closed? That plan took me 5 seconds to come up with.
 
Chris is right, if you plug in your car your using oil or coal power. Solar is down 50% of the day and Wind only works 30% of the time, both are poor replacements as the carbon footprint just for the concrete base of each windmill is 75 years to make up and that is not counting shipping scrap metal to China so the Blades can be made there under less restrictions to the environment then shipped back to America and trucked around the country. Then you have to run power lines to each wind farm. The cost and energy wasted is very high for these "green" solutions. I cut my own personal energy use down 60% just because I can't afford the cost here in California. The Government could make every car and SUV a 4 cylinder only and limit ALL engines to 60 MPH top speed no matter how hard you pressed the pedal. That would save millions of gallons in fuel. They are not serious about helping, just making money. I heard Al Gore just bought a nice $9 million dollar beach house ( paid for by selling the "AIR" from one country to another) after scaring people who live on the beaches to sell because the oceans would rise 20 feet lol, the master Scam artist at work.
 
Alex Kornreich said:
What's going to happen in less than a decade? I'm familiar with the Mayan calendar, but not this one.
Click to expand...

This is the amount of time estimated by conservative scientific estimates to be the 'tipping point', the point at which "feedbacks" are irreversible and unstoppable, and at which point we have absolutely zero control over anything anymore. This estimate was given in 2007 at the UN climate change conference in Montreal.



Course, young Alex, for your enlightenment, google will tell you that just by inputting such phrases as "less than a decade" and "climate change" into the search bar and see what comes up. And then try "geopolitics of oil".
 
chrislancaster said:
c'mon guys its not that simple



electric plants burn oil


its easy to burn oil or more oil as power is needed ... im sorry you cant save electricity it has to be created as needed

wind and solar wont work by themselves... wind is not steady enough and would cause surges and rolling black outs because the power plant can not control increases or decreases as needed


they have to manually burn fuel and its a very hard hot job to open up those vents as the electric needs increase


you can cut down but theres no viable GREEN energy to take it's place

thats just the facts

my father has worked at an electric plant for over 25 years i have had many conversations with him about this.


so my point is if we all buy electric cars that will make the electric companies burn much more oil.
Click to expand...

There are many solutions and proposals that currently exist to deal with the problems of power generation, of which one includes making houses self sufficient, so that we're no longer relying on inefficient centralized power plants and grids to supply energy. For example, putting extra solar panels on each roof of a house with an electric car would allow you to charge the car without using extra electricity from the grid. Further to that, if every house had some solar panels, we'd decrease the amount of energy needed on the grid. And then further to that, and very importantly, we really need to start practicing conservation of energy, and stop wasteful use of a very valuable resource.

I don't know what you mean about wind not being steady enough. Wind turbines do have voltage regulators, as well as auto shutoffs if the wind reaches a certain speed. You should let the danes know, though, cause they're planning on 40% of their power being created from offshore wind turbines by 2025. They're at 15% now??Not sure, that fact should be checked. And the germans are cranking up solar panels on every roof of every new house that's being built. As are the portuguese.

That's only 15 years from now. Not sure at all what you mean by solar won't work by itself. It does. And you store the energy that's not being used, or put it back into the grid. Also, your statements on wind make me believe that
you don't quite understand how harnessing wind energy works. The energy doesn't just go "raw" to the grid. You should do some research into this. Hawaii would probably be a great place for windmills i'd imagine.

So it's totally possible man. It's the system here in North America that currently makes real progress impossible. We could do it easily. We have the people, the brains, the determination, the will, and the know-how. Greedy fucking oil, power and media companies, corrupt politicians, and a desire to keep us in the consumer loop at our own peril is the real stumbling block, coupled with consumer apathetic-brain-dead thinking patterns and subsequent behaviours, courtesy of the media that we all know and love.
 
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