June Update

[Derek Carlson]

I honestly think RED needs to put a serious hold on new order and order changes. If someone wants to switch from Raven to S-W, they should need to do so through a third party vendor, until all these orders get caught up. On that note, I can recommend MaxxDigital as great people to work with when I made the switch.

 

[jordan levy]

where is the update on the raven to DXL 8k upgrade???
kidding, practicing for next year!
thanks jarred!

 

[Curtis Edlin]

Just curious where you got an official, definitive answer as to whether or not switching is still actively honoring original timestamps. In the April update, Jarred said:

If you switched from Raven to Scarlet-W (till the end of next week) and had your RAVEN order in after the Scarlet-W announcement, you are looking at a before NAB ship date.


Which leads some people to believe that the end of that week was a cutoff for switching priority... but actually now that I'm re-reading it, he said "had your RAVEN order in after the Scarlet-W announcement", which makes it sound like post-Dec10 RAVEN orders somehow still got priority over standard Scarlet-W orders, but that could have just been a typo?

But if you could point me to where the definitive answer is from "months ago" that says there is no cutoff for Raven-switcher priority, that would be great.

Overall, it's just frustrating to have waited for the Scarlet announcement because the Raven wasn't the right camera for me but due to SO many Raven orders and how long it will take to fulfill them, there is possibly an open door for people to switch and get their camera first and there is a massive motivation to do so (not getting their Raven for months).

Josh,

I completely understand your frustration.

The idea of a cutoff for Raven switchers was pure speculation. Neither Jarred or anyone else stated that a cutoff would happen, that information was just misinterpreted.

I can not directly provide you a link to that information but Jarred did state after S-W announcement, all Raven switchers would receive priority over regular and Scarlet-D preorders and that has not changed, nor is there information that makes it sound like it changed.

The comment you are referring to above is based solely on shipping estimations, nothing more.

Sure, Raven was not the right camera for a lot of people, which is why RED pushed so hard to announce S-W before raven shipped so that people would not be disappointed after they purchased a Raven.

Think of it this way, "first come, first serve". RED also gives special attention to returning/legendary customers.

I know that waiting sucks but you should be happy that you are not in the Raven Queue, I feel like someone with a December order there won't see a camera until the end of this year.

Also I wouldn't worry about too many Raven switchers as most people who ordered Raven (Especially before the price bump) simply can not afford the upgrade to S-W.

RED is more than a FAIR company when it comes to how they conduct business.

 

[Josh Becker]

Josh,

I completely understand your frustration.

The idea of a cutoff for Raven switchers was pure speculation. Neither Jarred or anyone else stated that a cutoff would happen, that information was just misinterpreted.

I can not directly provide you a link to that information but Jarred did state after S-W announcement, all Raven switchers would receive priority over regular and Scarlet-D preorders and that has not changed, nor is there information that makes it sound like it changed.

The comment you are referring to above is based solely on shipping estimations, nothing more.

Sure, Raven was not the right camera for a lot of people, which is why RED pushed so hard to announce S-W before raven shipped so that people would not be disappointed after they purchased a Raven.

Think of it this way, "first come, first serve". RED also gives special attention to returning/legendary customers.

I know that waiting sucks but you should be happy that you are not in the Raven Queue, I feel like someone with a December order there won't see a camera until the end of this year.

Also I wouldn't worry about too many Raven switchers as most people who ordered Raven (Especially before the price bump) simply can not afford the upgrade to S-W.

RED is more than a FAIR company when it comes to how they conduct business.

Ok, I'll just wait...

 

[Tom Dowler]

As I suspected, the June update was nothing revelatory - essentially "we're making and shipping cameras out to you as fast as we can".

One thing that might be helpful --- or might just fuel even more insane speculation and frustration -- would be a weekly update along the lines of:

"Raven - latest allocation was for an order timestamp of 12:01pm on 10/6/2015
Scarlet-W - latest allocation was for an order timestamp of 10:57pm on 12/9/2015"

You could even break it down further by brain-only, jetpack and I/O packages.

That way everyone can see how the orders are progressing, rather than just relying on seeing only when other redusers are getting their allocations.

On the flip side, it will lead to lots of posts about "my timestamp is 5 minutes earlier than that - why haven't I been allocated yet?"

I realize I'm asking for even more transparency from an insanely transparent team, but...

 

[Josh Becker]

As I suspected, the June update was nothing revelatory - essentially "we're making and shipping cameras out to you as fast as we can".

One thing that might be helpful --- or might just fuel even more insane speculation and frustration -- would be a weekly update along the lines of:

"Raven - latest allocation was for an order timestamp of 12:01pm on 10/6/2015
Scarlet-W - latest allocation was for an order timestamp of 10:57pm on 12/9/2015"

You could even break it down further by brain-only, jetpack and I/O packages.

That way everyone can see how the orders are progressing, rather than just relying on seeing only when other redusers are getting their allocations.

On the flip side, it will lead to lots of posts about "my timestamp is 5 minutes earlier than that - why haven't I been allocated yet?"

I realize I'm asking for even more transparency from an insanely transparent team, but...

But see, this is where the whole perpetual Raven-switching mucks things up. They can't say the last allocation for Scarlet-W was a certain date when they could get 15 switchers from pre-Dec 10 (as far back as Sept 25th) with earlier timestamps, rendering any status update completely irrelevant and non-indicative of allocation progress. That's why I don't think the switching is as simple as "a timestamp is a timestamp and it's fair to fulfill based on the timestamp!" because the act of switching lines at any time means the timestamps are in a fluid state, with people from October getting fulfilled before someone from November because the October person waited until May to switch while the November person switched in January... etc. etc.

 

[Albert Gonzalez]

I'd do just about anything for an estimation for when I would receive an allocation for my Scarlet-W. I preordered first week of January. Sold my RED Scarlet-X long ago. Help a RED brother out!

 

[Elsie N]

since ANA cares about sensor height more than width, you could do "8K" ANA with a "squarer" sensor...
those should be a tiny bit less rare than the spheric full size 8K sensor so could mean having a bit earlier / cheaper ANA version of the 8K VV

I like the idea of a square sensor... thinking that might be a better shape for IMAX. I hope we have a choice when our place in line comes up.

 

[Kazu Okuda]

anybody who preordered a scarlet, should give up planning anything. It's gonna push back another few months i suppose.
A month of just raven allocations didn't get past day one.
So now i think a good chunck of those people are going to jump ship again and goto scarlet.
That's another 3 months of raven preorder switchers to come.
Its probably going to be way more than they expected AGAIN.
Im a jan 2nd time stamp and i am not expecting to see my body till august/sept.

 

[Jeffery Anderson]

Epic-Weapon sound interesting... wonder if it'll be high frame-rate

and Ana Sensors... wonder if it's gonna be 36x27?

 

[Phil Holland]

8K VV are getting slightly better as well.. We went through a few dud wafers for a bit there but Spherical and Anamorphic 8k VV should start popping up at the end of the month in very small numbers.

REDVOLT Expanders should start shipping the last week of June.

Jetpack SDI a big batch should start shipping the 3rd week of July.

The DSMC2 Side Handle finally has a date... We will have the first small batch go out at the end of July with a monster batch following 6 weeks later.

My excitement level is now overflowing. BIG TIME.

 

[Jarred Land]

Seems that way doesn't it. Maybe something prompted by the Panavision project.

Wondering if there will be a price difference.

It was actually instigated by Vantage/Hawk. The very first one was in their booth at Cinegear

It is the same sensor as 8K VV but masked off the sides for Anamorphic ( or 6.7k spherical ) . Since the yield is higher on those they are a bit cheaper, but I wouldn't exactly call them "easy" to make.. they still will be slim pickings.

 

[Andreas Mendritzki]

Ok, the $10,000 question (literally). . . those who put down the 8k depot at NAB, do we have a choice between variants? (between the ANA and Spheric VV sensors)

 

[Samir Patel]

Thanks for the update!

 

[Brent Carter]

Hi Jarred, Brent - I had my WMg upgrade allocated since March, but the great thing for me was that meanwhile I had 2 feature films in production so I could not send it.

I have a trip to the UK (middle of June) so I can drop-off the camera, but my bomb squad rep just informed me that there is no estimated date for processing the upgrade and it might be a long time until it gets processed so it's better to keep it with me rather than risk a long period without camera.

When do you say is best to send it?

Thanks

We just fired up the WEAPON upgrade lines last week and we had built up a pretty big queue over the month May (focusing on RAVEN)…

But, the sooner you get it in, the better. Right now, we are probably at closer to 2-3 weeks in processing. And, like Jarred said, folks use summer as downtime to upgrade (like we see in December), so I don’t see us dropping to standard processing times of 7-10 business days for awhile).

I was really hoping for some kind of estimate update on the SW. I ordered mine january 21st, and i haven't heard of anyone with a january timestamp getting allocated yet. Am i really not going to shoot this beast untill fall? :'(

January timestamp, probably closer to Summer than Fall…

This is great news but one thing still perplexes me; do we have any cut off point for Raven-switchers to jump the queue for Scarlet-W?

Will flat out Scarlet-W orders continue to shift back as more and more Raven switchers realise the mound of orders that camera has?

As an early Jan. Order I thought I was pretty safe to organise a shoot for late August with the camera. I know that you shouldn't plan for a camera you don't currently possess but In this case I thought that for that sort of date I would be safe enough to do so. As a student film maker the acquisition of a Scarlet-W was going to in the long run save us a lot on production, I imagine our Kickstarter will probably have to take rental costs into consideration now

James, I believe I mentioned in another thread way back. Those that jumped from RAVEN to SCARLET-W did it at the onset. Not a significant amount of folks doing that anymore to where it would really affect those in queue…

 

[Darren McPhee]

If I have to wait until 2017 for my Scarlet-W, I'll gladly wait Thanks for the update, Jarred.

 

[Jarred Land]

Hi Jarred, Brent - I had my WMg upgrade allocated since March, but the great thing for me was that meanwhile I had 2 feature films in production so I could not send it.

I have a trip to the UK (middle of June) so I can drop-off the camera, but my bomb squad rep just informed me that there is no estimated date for processing the upgrade and it might be a long time until it gets processed so it's better to keep it with me rather than risk a long period without camera.

When do you say is best to send it?

Thanks

Don't worry Andrei you are not alone. And for all of those that wonder why we can't give you proper estimates that you are all asking for, this is one of the top reasons why. One week we will have very few upgrades and get a ton of new cameras out. The next week, suddenly just like you, we get a ton of upgraders or switchers finally call in and say they are ready and it takes over the lines. It's a yo-yo... which makes it just impossible to predict. And before you say " fuck those guys " just remember anyone already in the RED camp going through the upgrade thing has earned priority... it's not just a loyalty thing, it's a family thing. You'll appreciate it when you part of it

The other big reason its hard to make prediction is the availability of parts... mostly sensors right now. You have learned that process watching the 8k but at the volumes we are at now it also affects the 5k and 4.5k sensors. It is a blind guess when the sensors come out of the oven, and when you are behind that pretty much dictates how many cameras you can make the following week.

There are some other factors too... but hope that gives you all a bit of insight.

 

[Elsie N]

It was actually instigated by Vantage/Hawk. The very first one was in their booth at Cinegear

It is the same sensor as 8K VV but masked off the sides for Anamorphic ( or 6.7k spherical ) . Since the yield is higher on those they are a bit cheaper, but I wouldn't exactly call them "easy" to make.. they still will be slim pickings.

So not really taller but a smaller cut of the wafer. Sounds like a good idea to affordably meet the needs of those who like to shoot anamorphic.

I've always said this ability to make these kinds of decisions at a moments notice and having the wherewithal to implement them are what gives RED the edge.

 

[Josh Becker]

January timestamp, probably closer to Summer than Fall…

Sorry to badger, Brent, do you see Dec 10th orders being fulfilled this month? July? Like I said before, my shoots aren't relying on it by any means, but I've got a couple weeks of shooting that would be extra awesome if I had the Scarlet-W.

 

[Scot Yount]

January timestamp, probably closer to Summer than Fall…

Hi Brent,
Any thoughts on Dec 10 Timestamp? My Scarlet is an MX so no Dragon priority.....

Edit: Sorry...Josh Becker and I seem to be pretty much on the same page...posting the same thing haha....!