Joomla or Flash based WEB Site??!!??

[Justin O'Neill]

Flash is not dead.

My problem with Flash is that there are close to 50 million iPhones worldwide and the iPad looks on track to match that. I don't want to code any major feature with something that can't be viewed by 50 million people. That being said, I still have some Flash on my sites (Vimeo embeds) because HTML5 doesn't replace everything yet. As soon as Vimeo releases all of their vids in HTML5 I will be replacing my Flash embeds.

Since not all browsers support HTML5 yet (they will eventually) I am looking at doing videos in HTML5 with a fallback to Flash for non compliant browsers.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

BUT, if you want to see a site I am still working on that is some CRAZINESS, check out this:

http://www.welcometorelativity.com


This IS all coding that I put together from an opensource project to make the website for the film I have in preproduction be like a text adventure. As I said, it is not done yet, but it has been A LOT of fun! It's ALL written in Javascript.

He he, yeah crazy start, kinda of like it do, not for me.

Check out this Ketch:

http://www.yootheme.com/

Thanks Jean, bookmarked and will give it a look thru.

You can add another vote for Wordpress from me. Squarespace looks interesting though.

If you're into coding yourself, CodeIgniter is a pretty good PHP framework that makes writing web apps way easier than in just straight PHP.

Thanks Stephen, and no' I'm definitely not in to coding, just the very basic HTML for posting.

I don't think many people realize how much resources Flash based code use. It amazes me on my Macbook Pro 2x2.93Ghz how a page with Flash can make my machine crawl in ANY of the web browsers I've used.

So true Rick, in fact most of the Flash site I navigate, well the Dynamic Flash templates actually, my MBP goes in to Turbo mode, he he, and gets really loud, I imagine not a good thing.

My problem with Flash is that there are close to 50 million iPhones worldwide and the iPad looks on track to match that. I don't want to code any major feature with something that can't be viewed by 50 million people. That being said, I still have some Flash on my sites (Vimeo embeds) because HTML5 doesn't replace everything yet. As soon as Vimeo releases all of their vids in HTML5 I will be replacing my Flash embeds.

Since not all browsers support HTML5 yet (they will eventually) I am looking at doing videos in HTML5 with a fallback to Flash for non compliant browsers.

Totally have to agree with you on this one Justin.

 

[Erik Franzén]

A professional would be more suited to your needs. But, for fast run and gun situation where you need it up NOW then there is no better than the alternatives previously mentioned.

I admit I only skimmed the pages, but I am fairly surprised no one mentioned Javascript as an alternative to Flash - they are natural born enemies after all. As a programmer I have always been appalled by some of the choices done in Flash's architecture because, to be honest, it has some sort of gearing towards artists while being fairly obtrusive for programmers. Javascript, while not the prettiest, always did have it's way of being unobtrusive and fairly easy to implement.

But it's not all bad. I've seen some amazing work with Flash-based websites. However, those are the exception - not the rule. And, to no surprise, more often that not - guess what? They are done by professionals! (and no, not just someone who comes up and calls themselves "professionals" - real webtechgurus).

Great discussion guys, keep it up. :thumbup1:

 

[Rick Burnett]

The problem with JavaScript is that it cannot do all the things that you can with FLASH and anyone can download your JavaScript code making it hard to protect your own personal IP.

Don't get me wrong, I love coding in it, but it's described as a "dynamic, weakly typed, prototype-based language" which I think is pretty accurate. For anything big or complicated I find it can have problems.

I even used JavaScript when it was called LiveScript in Netscape Navigator! They should have NEVER added the work Java to it because it has NOTHING to do with Java.

From the OP needs, he seems to be looking for a good content management system that is already programmed and allows customizations through an admin panel. Most of the major systems listed are pretty popular and well regarded.

 

[Kevin Olsen]

I agree with SquareSpace, simple and quick

 

[Martin Weiss]

I built our (and a couple of others) around Wordpress, which has matured into a very flexible plattform with a huge community. You can buy some excellent templates, or build your own from a free one.

Having said this, if I had to start from scratch today, I'd use Squarespace as it let's you concentrate on the content and design and you don't have to worry about bandwidth and database integrity. If you use http://squarespace.com/twit you'll get 10% off. They also offer a free trial.

 

[PaulClements]

Hi Ketch,

In our game there are so many users on iPhones that going Flash could make life hell for simply finding your contact details. As such you need to have a non-flash website in there and detection to show different material on different platforms/setups. It becomes a pain to implement frankly.

I personally prefer to use something PHP based such as wordpress, joomla or other. Then I'll maybe add a flash movie on the home page for a bit of pzazz (sp?). I then chuck in a bit of script to tell it to show an image or even a php/javascript script with slideshow type images in case the user can't view flash (For iPhones and people who hate having flash on their computer).

With anything on the web keep it clean and simple and direct with a smattering of pretty pics and graphics and you're onto a winner.

Squarespace is a great tool if you want control and don't have any experience building websites. Let's you get on with the important bits.

Cheers
Paul

 

[Jim Retar]

As a web designer by trade for many years.. let me dispel a few myths.

Flash isn't dead (full flash sites).... but it is expensive to do what you want and be SEO friendly. I have made several sites in Flash that have a very high ranking in google. We do this by having ghost html content that exactly matches your flash site (and is shown, if the user does not have Flash...ipad users, for instance).

Flash has a bad rep as most people use it in a very bad way. But when done right, it can create a real buzz around the internet and with your clients. (one of our sites was getting 600,000 hits a day from the buzz around award sites and forum).

For most any other business... I would suggest html/css and something like joomla (although I prefer to have a custom CMS). But for creative companies/portfolios.... I think Flash / Flex is still a great solution.

Flash sites that are slow to load.... that is bad coding/implementation by the design house.... not flash itself.

Flash sites that are CPU heavy.... that is bad coding/implementation by the design house.... not flash itself.

PM me if you want to discuss this further.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

A professional would be more suited to your needs. But, for fast run and gun situation where you need it up NOW then there is no better than the alternatives previously mentioned.

I admit I only skimmed the pages, but I am fairly surprised no one mentioned Javascript as an alternative to Flash - they are natural born enemies after all. As a programmer I have always been appalled by some of the choices done in Flash's architecture because, to be honest, it has some sort of gearing towards artists while being fairly obtrusive for programmers. Javascript, while not the prettiest, always did have it's way of being unobtrusive and fairly easy to implement.

But it's not all bad. I've seen some amazing work with Flash-based websites. However, those are the exception - not the rule. And, to no surprise, more often that not - guess what? They are done by professionals! (and no, not just someone who comes up and calls themselves "professionals" - real webtechgurus).

Great discussion guys, keep it up. :thumbup1:

Well Erik, I already had not one but "4" So called Professionals, and I really tired of their unprofessionalism, and it costed me money with no results.

I actually had several possibilities including that to go with companies such as Trigger, Schematic, CampFire and few others, thing is, I really am establishing and growing then content and fill of the site as I go, since what I'm attempting to do it has never been done before and needs a particular structure.

I too have seen some great Flash based sites and for this I brought it up, as I would like Ketchframe.com to be built with it, but it still seems that it would not be a good idea for me.

JavaScript, is something aI was told to stay away from it for the integrity and protection, so I did.

The problem with JavaScript is that it cannot do all the things that you can with FLASH and anyone can download your JavaScript code making it hard to protect your own personal IP.

Don't get me wrong, I love coding in it, but it's described as a "dynamic, weakly typed, prototype-based language" which I think is pretty accurate. For anything big or complicated I find it can have problems.

I even used JavaScript when it was called LiveScript in Netscape Navigator! They should have NEVER added the work Java to it because it has NOTHING to do with Java.

From the OP needs, he seems to be looking for a good content management system that is already programmed and allows customizations through an admin panel. Most of the major systems listed are pretty popular and well regarded.

Yes Rick, I was told that as well, JavaScript is not functional in the security as well as other aspects, especially when I need a CMS that really works for me, in order to almost daily be able to update content.

I was in the process to request the services of yet an other web professional, and do a customized site with CMS, but then Epic-X stage two announcement requires the funding, so here I am.

I agree with SquareSpace, simple and quick

Yes Kevin Squarespace seems nice, just don't know yet if I will be able to get out of it what I need for my sites, but I'm still going thru.

I built our (and a couple of others) around Wordpress, which has matured into a very flexible plattform with a huge community. You can buy some excellent templates, or build your own from a free one.

Having said this, if I had to start from scratch today, I'd use Squarespace as it let's you concentrate on the content and design and you don't have to worry about bandwidth and database integrity. If you use http://squarespace.com/twit you'll get 10% off. They also offer a free trial.

Thanks for the link Martin, will be sure to make use of it if I'll decide on Squarespace.

Hi Ketch,

In our game there are so many users on iPhones that going Flash could make life hell for simply finding your contact details. As such you need to have a non-flash website in there and detection to show different material on different platforms/setups. It becomes a pain to implement frankly.

I personally prefer to use something PHP based such as wordpress, joomla or other. Then I'll maybe add a flash movie on the home page for a bit of pzazz (sp?). I then chuck in a bit of script to tell it to show an image or even a php/javascript script with slideshow type images in case the user can't view flash (For iPhones and people who hate having flash on their computer).

With anything on the web keep it clean and simple and direct with a smattering of pretty pics and graphics and you're onto a winner.

Squarespace is a great tool if you want control and don't have any experience building websites. Let's you get on with the important bits.

Cheers
Paul

Yes Paul, you are right, and we have been discussing this as well, iPhone and iPad are definitely platforms that I want to stay friendly with, I want to have such users to be allow with ease to navigate the site.

As a web designer by trade for many years.. let me dispel a few myths.

Flash isn't dead (full flash sites).... but it is expensive to do what you want and be SEO friendly. I have made several sites in Flash that have a very high ranking in google. We do this by having ghost html content that exactly matches your flash site (and is shown, if the user does not have Flash...ipad users, for instance).

Flash has a bad rep as most people use it in a very bad way. But when done right, it can create a real buzz around the internet and with your clients. (one of our sites was getting 600,000 hits a day from the buzz around award sites and forum).

For most any other business... I would suggest html/css and something like joomla (although I prefer to have a custom CMS). But for creative companies/portfolios.... I think Flash / Flex is still a great solution.

Flash sites that are slow to load.... that is bad coding/implementation by the design house.... not flash itself.

Flash sites that are CPU heavy.... that is bad coding/implementation by the design house.... not flash itself.

PM me if you want to discuss this further.

Thanks Jim, great info, will be sure to send you a PM.

 

[Erik Franzén]

So, four bad ones makes the entire business bad?
Sorry Ketch, but that is a bit harsh - throwing every single webdev. overboard like that. I have a lot of friends who do this on their day-jobs and have amazing inside knowledge in the various subfields. It is quite complex imho.

Javascript is only insecure if you use it beyond designed parameters - user interface. It is not meant to fuck around with your databases or take up a lot of extra slack. And no, of course you do not use it for something that needs heavy security. I, however, was under the assumption that you were looking for alternatives.
Since that is not the case, I'll take my leave since I've nothing further to add.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

So, four bad ones makes the entire business bad?
Sorry Ketch, but that is a bit harsh - throwing every single webdev. overboard like that. I have a lot of friends who do this on their day-jobs and have amazing inside knowledge in the various subfields. It is quite complex imho.

Javascript is only insecure if you use it beyond designed parameters - user interface. It is not meant to fuck around with your databases or take up a lot of extra slack. And no, of course you do not use it for something that needs heavy security. I, however, was under the assumption that you were looking for alternatives.
Since that is not the case, I'll take my leave since I've nothing further to add.

Well Erik, no four bad do not make the entire web Designer community a bad one, but you will have to excuse me if I decided to kinda take a brake after having literally thrown away money at 4 web designers.

The reason for posting here, is exactly that of getting inside info as well as hopefully find fellow trusted Redusers that do also Web designers, with hum I would be more comfortable do business with.

Security will be an issue from the very beginning so this is why I say no to JavaScript, and yes I am looking for alternatives, again one of the reasons why I posted here.

 

[Erik Franzén]

Well Erik, no four bad do not make the entire web Designer community a bad one, but you will have to excuse me if I decided to kinda take a brake after having literally thrown away money at 4 web designers.

The reason for posting here, is exactly that of getting inside info as well as hopefully find fellow trusted Redusers that do also Web designers, with hum I would be more comfortable do business with.

Security will be an issue from the very beginning so this is why I say no to JavaScript, and yes I am looking for alternatives, again one of the reasons why I posted here.

In that case I apologize for misunderstanding. I gathered more from your post then what was there.:incazzato::grouphug::emote_hippie:
Unfortunately, most of the alternatives just aren't "there" yet. Take Silverlight for example. Interesting technology which has demonstrated ample performance and seems to have an interesting future. But as for now it is windows-only. That is a deal killer.
I've been poking around at what JavaFX/JavaFXScript can do but so far I am unsure how well they'd stand up to the competition.

I've been poking at an alternative for Flash for quite some time. Never found anything worthwhile that lasted beyond experimential phases. So it seems that unless some almighty guru is willing to weigh in Flash is what we're at :nads:

(and if I ever come off as rude to you Ketch, it is only because I am very passionate about what I do, as I know you are, so best of luck finding what you are searching for! :beer

 

[Ketch Rossi]

In that case I apologize for misunderstanding. I gathered more from your post then what was there.:incazzato::grouphug::emote_hippie:
Unfortunately, most of the alternatives just aren't "there" yet. Take Silverlight for example. Interesting technology which has demonstrated ample performance and seems to have an interesting future. But as for now it is windows-only. That is a deal killer.
I've been poking around at what JavaFX/JavaFXScript can do but so far I am unsure how well they'd stand up to the competition.

I've been poking at an alternative for Flash for quite some time. Never found anything worthwhile that lasted beyond experimential phases. So it seems that unless some almighty guru is willing to weigh in Flash is what we're at :nads:

(and if I ever come off as rude to you Ketch, it is only because I am very passionate about what I do, as I know you are, so best of luck finding what you are searching for! :beer

He he, no worries at all Erik, I know that I can also come across the wrong way with my EngliTalian, ha ha, so no arm done at all, and appreciate the input.

 

[Rick Burnett]

Also, don't think of JavaScript as an all or nothing tool in HTML design. The selection you choose might in fact have JavaScript in it and that is perfectly okay, because not all parts of a website contain proprietary IP, the JavaScript just allows you to have dynamic operations on the client side. I say this just so if you see something includes some JavaScript that you think it is bad, because it is probably not.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Also, don't think of JavaScript as an all or nothing tool in HTML design. The selection you choose might in fact have JavaScript in it and that is perfectly okay, because not all parts of a website contain proprietary IP, the JavaScript just allows you to have dynamic operations on the client side. I say this just so if you see something includes some JavaScript that you think it is bad, because it is probably not.

Thanks Rick, understood.

I think that I will be either continuing with Joomla, since I already have a sizable investment with the seven web site in process, and since it is amongst the favorite, any way, but I also do like the WP and the Squarespace, so will see.

 

[Rick Burnett]

Given you have 7 websites, I can totally understand When my web work became more than my audio in video work, that's when I started to make decisions.

I've actually done web design before for paying clients and A LOT of them have had some pretty bad experiences. Web Design is art, and like all forms of art, it can be hard to find someone talented, reasonable and dependable. It's easy to but of a facade of ability, but getting other people's recommendations of who they use, that's the best way.

Good Luck!

 

[Tobias Straka]

+1 vote for wordpress.

I used to do lots of websites with Joomla and I still think it's a great system. Still, I really digg the ease of use of wordpress and the endless possiblities when it comes to doing some advanced plugin-realated stuff. I don't know why, it just seems more solid than Joomla. Right now I'm in the middle of doing a pretty complex site, and so far, wp has been just amazing. SquareSpace is nice, but it's too iPhoto-istic for me. Flash - I would not recomment a Flash-only site, but use it where needed. Couple links:

http://themeforest.net/ - great themes for wp
http://slideshowpro.net/ - great for images and vids (integrates nicely with joomla, make sure you get "Director", too)

 

[Noah Richoz]

Second wordpress. easy to use, compatible and easy on the eyes.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Given you have 7 websites, I can totally understand When my web work became more than my audio in video work, that's when I started to make decisions.

I've actually done web design before for paying clients and A LOT of them have had some pretty bad experiences. Web Design is art, and like all forms of art, it can be hard to find someone talented, reasonable and dependable. It's easy to but of a facade of ability, but getting other people's recommendations of who they use, that's the best way.

Good Luck!

Yeah seven sites, with more coming is one of the reasons I started studying Web stuff as well, but then give it up pretty fast too, ha ha, so now looking in to prebuilt type of Templates with CMs easy to manage.

+1 vote for wordpress.

I used to do lots of websites with Joomla and I still think it's a great system. Still, I really digg the ease of use of wordpress and the endless possiblities when it comes to doing some advanced plugin-realated stuff. I don't know why, it just seems more solid than Joomla. Right now I'm in the middle of doing a pretty complex site, and so far, wp has been just amazing. SquareSpace is nice, but it's too iPhoto-istic for me. Flash - I would not recomment a Flash-only site, but use it where needed. Couple links:

http://themeforest.net/ - great themes for wp
http://slideshowpro.net/ - great for images and vids (integrates nicely with joomla, make sure you get "Director", too)

Thanks Tobias, I wil look thru the link for the WP templates, as far as Slideshopro, I already have it Director off course, purchased as one of the many plug ins for the Joomla, does it also work with WP type Templates?

Second wordpress. easy to use, compatible and easy on the eyes.

This are surely positive things that I look for.

 

[Tony Lorentzen]

I had written a loooong reply to you Ketch, but my browser crashed. The essence of it was to not go the Flash route. Not because it's dead, but because the risk of locking yourself into a position where updating the site can be tricky, cumbersome and potentially expensive. You want something that can grow as you need and something that is simple, fast and something that supports many different platforms.

I have been working as a webdesigner/developer since 94 so I believe my experience should have some weight in this. You should go for something that is somewhat "open" and something that is easy to update (basically something CMS-based). There's a lot of great systems out there - Wordpress being a very capable and widely adopted system and there are many developers that can help you in that direction. Something worth taking into consideration too.

Let me know if there's anything I can help you with.