It's official, anyone now can be a colorist!

[Rick Turners]

I think a lot of the problem is that there are so few good jobs left in the industry..

Universities/schools are plopping out over 100,000 new graduates (worldwide) a year, in an industry that is shrinking in relevance, (look at ticket sales). All of these graduates surely can not be directors who hire colorists? Many of them find another facet or learn everything they can to put food on the table. To be honest, I think a Uni even claiming that there is a career in film anymore is criminal. Its the wild west, dog eat dog. You got a color grading biz that is going good? Someone will figure that out and try to take a slice. Aspiring directors are becoming editors, aspiring editors take aspiring colorist jobs.. no one has the courage to follow their original dream anymore? But, can you blame them?

/negative rant

 

[shashbugu]

All the above comments are very interesting and offer a lot of food for thought. The world is changing, once upon a time there weren't that many institutions teaching visual fx compositing and Colorgrading. The are now quiet a few individuals, traveling consultants, institutions, books, online learning resources, forums, apprenticeships, internships etc. Many more will learn to make well crafted and beautiful looking films. As a filmmaker and film-lover I embrace this and welcome other artists from around the planet and especially in the Third World to learn the artistry skills and techniques to tell their personal and cultural stories. The incentives in in other countries that were once reserved for Hollywood films are now being taken advantage of by local indigenous producers and filmmakers. As opposed to waiting for 5 films to shoot in your town, you can boost your own economies by shooting two hundred of your own, you will find a few screens somewhere to make your money. Its the New Global Economy.

 

[Phil Holland]

Nice 6 year old post bump. *tears*

 

[jake blackstone]

Elitist people who fear competition. Lol. If you can't compete, then maybe it's you, and not the guy who is cheaper who is the problem.

Does it look like I fear the "competition" from someone like you? :biggrin:
If anything, after 6 years since I originally posted it, now it's a new norm:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...*ckin-Broke-amp-What-They-Can-Do-to-Change-It!
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?147356-Will-Work-for-Free
So, you still think the problem is with the "Elitist people who fear competition"?
Keep on dreaming. Time to move out of parent's garage and to start making a living wage for a change...

 

[Marc Wielage]

Does it look like I fear the "competition" from someone like you? :biggrin:
If anything, after 6 years since I originally posted it, now it's a new norm:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...*ckin-Broke-amp-What-They-Can-Do-to-Change-It!
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?147356-Will-Work-for-Free
So, you still think the problem is with the "Elitist people who fear competition"?
Keep on dreaming. Time to move out of parent's garage and to start making a living wage for a change...

Yes​ to everything Jake says here.

Elitist people who fear competition. Lol. If you can't compete, then maybe it's you, and not the guy who is cheaper who is the problem.

Competition is fine, provided the other person has talent and experience. The problem for everybody (and I would count cinematographers, editors, VFX people, sound people, and colorists in that group) is getting hammered on pricing by inexperienced people who know very little and have no real experience. The other issue is neophyte filmmakers who have a huge sense of entitlement and don't understand the reality of what services really cost and what real-world rates are. As a result, you see ads saying, "wanted: DP for my film. I want a Red camera, a selection of lenses, and a full lighting kit, and I'll pay you $250 a day all-in." Is that fair?

 

[PatrickFaith]

Reduser seems fairly stale to me, basically the same debates that went on 6 years ago, and people still not getting it. I will have moved to 8k-20k point cloud grading in unity even before I get my Red 8k VV which I ordered it feels in ancient times ... lets see 2015 (will I get it by 2017?). On another front entitlement thing is HUGE, I run into so many people that think they don't need to learn, or think they can ignore the move to GPU based cinema while that is obviously taking over as the majority of work. For those that keep up with things and enjoy digging into things, having decided not to be ignorant, there will be a lots of work in light design.

 

[jake blackstone]

Reduser seems fairly stale to me, basically the same debates that went on 6 years ago, and people still not getting it. I will have moved to 8k-20k point cloud grading in unity even before I get my Red 8k VV which I ordered it feels in ancient times ... lets see 2015 (will I get it by 2017?). On another front entitlement thing is HUGE, I run into so many people that think they don't need to learn, or think they can ignore the move to GPU based cinema while that is obviously taking over as the majority of work. For those that keep up with things and enjoy digging into things, having decided not to be ignorant, there will be a lots of work in light design.

I can't wait for the depth information being part of a standard image acquisition. Then realistic ray-traced re-ighting is not that far off into the future for life action. Now we're talking some serious heavy lifting. No kiddies with iMacs need to apply...

 

[Brody_B]

If you provide a superior product you will always rise above the masses of inexperienced competition. In a whole you need to start looking at them like they aren't competition, simply because they really aren't.

 

[PatrickFaith]

I can't wait for the depth information being part of a standard image acquisition. Then realistic ray-traced re-ighting is not that far off into the future for life action. Now we're talking some serious heavy lifting. No kiddies with iMacs need to apply...

That's for sure, another thing is most of the files I'm getting on this are at 90 FPS. I can't even use my new color grading monitor (eizo 318) because it won't run at 90 fps, I couldn't imagine watching r3d transcode realtime at that rate either. I btw find grading at 90 fps a lot diffirent, it's just a kind of "solid" feeling and when I watch 24 fps it feels "classic". It has also effected me now, in that I don't like watching between 24 and 90 fps - that "mid" range fps just feels junky. I have also noticed 24 fps footage inside a 90 fps container feels pretty good. The 90 fps at 8k also is real nice for tracking.

On the hardware side for this, I think the GPU's aligned with the new gpu based node flows is where it will be at (i.e. like unity node and shadar flows) - this will really seperate post shops that can't keep up with the mental changes, yet have invested in old school hardware. Overall I don't think the cost will be horrible in 2017, I think the people that have a deep understanding of color will do fine, it's that a lot of basics of color theory aren't taught and the "cookie" cutter approach to grading with these "easy" programs like divinci just doen't work with 90 fps linear realtime 3d grading. In some ways the new stuff is a lot more "physically" based (i am btw so glad baselight went that way but have not figured out how to hook that to unity) so those people that are grounded in the basics will do much better on this transition. I kind of worry about the 25-35 age group in that a lot of those color theory basics were not taught as they have learned this high level software, yet the transition is hitting right as they are merging with the market place. The over 55 crowd I also think will do well because they had to learn the basic kind of how to do it in the old days (i.e. I had to learn with analog histograms and radar scopes, and almost everything was analog when I learned it). The under 21 group I think gets it, as they start more from the "game" side of things and that is almost automatically transitioning to the cinema side now.

 

[David Peterson]

You're welcome to read into this whatever you wish. I'm sure, there are a lot of takers for low contractor/editor/composer/gynecologist/colorist rates. If you don't find this peculiar, then, I guess, I'm wrong posting this

I'll offer free examinations! Which is probably all mine are worth. Heh

But yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if "colorist" meant "painter"?? As that would make a lot of sense with the Relator/Contractor mentioned as well, as all three go together with each other very well.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

I can't wait for the depth information being part of a standard image acquisition. Then realistic ray-traced re-ighting is not that far off into the future for life action. Now we're talking some serious heavy lifting. No kiddies with iMacs need to apply...

Or...one can use these for heavy lifting, without light faking dicking in a dark room and technological resources get utilized for something more useful for the society and the Art of Cinemato-graphy doesn't turn into a complete circus and stays as it's called.

 

[jake blackstone]

Or...one can use these for heavy lifting, without light faking dicking in a dark room and technological resources get utilized for something more useful for the society and the Art of Cinemato-graphy doesn't turn into a complete circus and stays as it's called.

Yes, you can do that or you can acquiesce to inevitable. New technologies are coming, like it or not...

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Yes, you can do that or you can acquiesce to inevitable.

You mean acquiesce to inertia, without responsibility and thinking ahead ?

That has been shown as a very poor choice enough times already.
Technology serves me. I don't serve technology.

New technologies are coming, like it or not...

That is cool.
Everything has a positive and negative potential and the outcome, the manifestation of that potential depends on the one able to choose.

Depth mapping has a positive potential for compositing/VFX artists. Abused in cinematography to fake light it has potential to mess it up, through deterioration of the craft and sterilization of the image.

Depth mapping alone is nowhere near the ability of fake light rendering. There are tons of light related properties such as diffraction, refraction, occlusion, absorption, reflection, scattering, transmission, etc...all of which together affect the appearance of the image. Who's interested in that part done on a computer instead of on the set, there is the CGI department and many jobs available there. Cinematography and color grading are something else. The child within will naturally always want to play no matter what, but which part of a Man gets to lead...well that varies.

The magic happens in the moment on the shoot, with real light and creative team being in that moment. Cinematographer's role is to understand the properties of light, shape its appearance according to context and environment felt directly on the shoot and capture the essence, bathed with that crafted light.

Camera is there to capture the light.
From the first wooden box to carbon fibre housed super computer with a sensor. The fundamental principle of photography and cinematography.

Pissing on that and throwing it away due to "technology" as if it should somehow decide the outcome by itself...is.... *not very wise*.

Perhaps I should use a different route and start a thread:

"Hey, in 2025 everyone can be a Pokemon chasing cinematographer."

Intro rant : "All you have to do is sit in an armchair in a dark room while answering emails and checking status updates and tell the post specialist to "do it a little better".

Maybe that would help a colleague caring about its own craft see the wider picture. Before the principle of algorithm replacing creative Human grows and gets a life of its own, blowing back in the face.

 

[Peter Moretti]

I find the complaints valid, but also a little ironic, as Red helped foment this "revolution."

The spear feels a lot different, depending on which end happens to be pointing at you.

 

[jake blackstone]

You mean acquiesce to inertia, without responsibility and thinking ahead ?

That has been shown as a very poor choice enough times already.
Technology serves me. I don't serve technology.



That is cool.
Everything has a positive and negative potential and the outcome, the manifestation of that potential depends on the one able to choose.

Depth mapping has a positive potential for compositing/VFX artists. Abused in cinematography to fake light it has potential to mess it up, through deterioration of the craft and sterilization of the image.

Depth mapping alone is nowhere near the ability of fake light rendering. There are tons of light related properties such as diffraction, refraction, occlusion, absorption, reflection, scattering, transmission, etc...all of which together affect the appearance of the image. Who's interested in that part done on a computer instead of on the set, there is the CGI department and many jobs available there. Cinematography and color grading are something else. The child within will naturally always want to play no matter what, but which part of a Man gets to lead...well that varies.

The magic happens in the moment on the shoot, with real light and creative team being in that moment. Cinematographer's role is to understand the properties of light, shape its appearance according to context and environment felt directly on the shoot and capture the essence, bathed with that crafted light.

Camera is there to capture the light.
From the first wooden box to carbon fibre housed super computer with a sensor. The fundamental principle of photography and cinematography.

Pissing on that and throwing it away due to "technology" as if it should somehow decide the outcome by itself...is.... *not very wise*.

Perhaps I should use a different route and start a thread:

"Hey, in 2025 everyone can be a Pokemon chasing cinematographer."

Intro rant : "All you have to do is sit in an armchair in a dark room while answering emails and checking status updates and tell the post specialist to "do it a little better".

Maybe that would help a colleague caring about its own craft see the wider picture. Before the principle of algorithm replacing creative Human grows and gets a life of its own, blowing back in the face.

I guess all this new "DI stuff" I hear so much about it is pure and unadulterated waste of time. These kids today sit in those darn dark room and keep changing picture brightness and other crazy stuff like that, instead of doing everything in camera, just like film gods intended it to. So if, let say, sun moves behind the clouds, then everyone must wait for the sun to assume correct position before resuming filming. Everything MUST be done in camera!
I tell you, those crazy kids today with their crazy technologies...

 

[David Peterson]

haha, so true jake! Once it is graved in stone it must NEVER BE CHANGED

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

I guess all this new "DI stuff" I hear so much about it is pure and unadulterated waste of time. These kids today sit in those darn dark room and keep changing picture brightness and other crazy stuff like that, instead of doing everything in camera, just like film gods intended it to. So if, let say, sun moves behind the clouds, then everyone must wait for the sun to assume correct position before resuming filming. Everything MUST be done in camera!
I tell you, those crazy kids today with their crazy technologies...

I hope venting helped.

Now let's try to ditch the bias toned input LUT for a minute and:

a) make a distinction between shaping a crafted image and CGI,
b) consider symbiotic relationship of image crafting domains and which caters which
c) consider what playful humans typically do when headlessly rushing into new technologies

So we can avoid the need for venting, belittling other crafts, and most importantly - avoid the destructive effect of inertia, affecting all in the long run. I have high hopes for craftsmen possessing developed visualization and context adaptation skills.

 

[Elsie N]

57 channels and nothing's on.

 

[jake blackstone]

I hope venting helped.

Now let's try to ditch the bias toned input LUT for a minute and:

a) make a distinction between shaping a crafted image and CGI,
b) consider symbiotic relationship of image crafting domains and which caters which
c) consider what playful humans typically do when headlessly rushing into new technologies

So we can avoid the need for venting, belittling other crafts, and most importantly - avoid the destructive effect of inertia, affecting all in the long run. I have high hopes for craftsmen possessing developed visualization and context adaptation skills.

Yes, thank you, I feel now much better now and I can't wait for the depth information being part of a standard image acquisition. I hope my skills are developed enough to meet your context adaptation approval.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Yes, thank you, I feel now much better now and I can't wait for the depth information being part of a standard image acquisition. I hope my skills are developed enough to meet your context adaptation approval.

Have a nice Sun Day, Jake.