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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Issues

Magenta filter

Magenta filter

Stephen Williams said:
Hi Deanan,

So clearly using a filter in front of the lens to color correct is a good idea, although this has been denied many times.

Stephen
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I could see that magenta filters are going to rule here soon like with Viper!?
 
Gregorios said:
If you want your mid tones to be bang on then set the camera/process at 320 but set your meter to 80 or 100.

Hi,

Ok shit, my lighting budget just went up 400%.

Stephen
Click to expand...
 
The 2 stops of light lost wont be popular, partial correction may be the answer, it's a shame the the sensor is not native 3200k it's only 2/3 stop loss to convert to daylight.
Click to expand...
I'm sure they had their reasons. I don't think it's so easy to engineer a new CMOS of this size from scratch.

Ok shit, my lighting budget just went up 400%.
Click to expand...

Can't help to wonder why you often use a tone that I would define as "harshly defensive" in many of your posts.
 
Concrete said:
Can't help to wonder why you often use a tone that I would define as "harshly defensive" in many of your posts.
Click to expand...

Hi,

Sorry, but if the amount of light required increases 4 fold so does the budget. Actually it's more manpower to move larger lights so its more than 4 times the cost. So the theoretical savings of using a RED have just evaporated, I like to be realistic, I am in this business to make money whilst having fun.

It's very important I spend my producers money wisely. Very often shooting on film is indeed the cheapest way. Many of my competitors do not accept this and wonder how I get the job shooting on film when they had proposed shooting on XDCAM HD. My proposed budget is often identical or less than theirs.

Stephen
 
Stephen Williams said:
Hi Deanan,

So clearly using a filter in front of the lens to color correct is a good idea, although this has been denied many times.

Stephen

Edit, The 2 stops of light lost wont be popular, partial correction may be the answer, it's a shame the the sensor is not native 3200k it's only 2/3 stop loss to convert to daylight.
Click to expand...


I totally agree on this. The lower the color temperature you set on the camera, the more noise you get. 80A could help on this.
 
macgregor said:
I totally agree on this. The lower the color temperature you set on the camera, the more noise you get. 80A could help on this.
Click to expand...

Hi Mac,

It's very strange because I was suggesting this a long time ago but was assured that it would make no difference whatsoever. I always assumed there is no such thing as a free lunch.

Stephen
 
Stephen Williams said:
Hi Mac,

It's very strange because I was suggesting this a long time ago but was assured that it would make no difference whatsoever. I always assumed there is no such thing as a free lunch.

Stephen
Click to expand...


No free lunch with RED!?

If not then take the Blue solid colour effects filter to create a standard cooling blue effect.

MORE>>
 
Stephen Williams said:
Hi Deanan,

So clearly using a filter in front of the lens to color correct is a good idea, although this has been denied many times.

Stephen

Edit, The 2 stops of light lost wont be popular, partial correction may be the answer, it's a shame the the sensor is not native 3200k it's only 2/3 stop loss to convert to daylight.
Click to expand...

I agree Stephen... I don't know how many times I've brought this up as well, and told by those in the know with raw still workflow "It doesn't matter at all". Well, clearly it does in regard to noise. It makes, intuitively, no sense to suggest there isn't some penality for correcting for a completely wrong direction in color temperature.

There's a list of simple tests I intend to do when I get mine, this color balance clarification is one of them... I wonder if this was tested with the L.A.R.T team?
 
Stephen Williams said:
Hi Deanan,

So clearly using a filter in front of the lens to color correct is a good idea, although this has been denied many times.

Stephen

Edit, The 2 stops of light lost wont be popular, partial correction may be the answer, it's a shame the the sensor is not native 3200k it's only 2/3 stop loss to convert to daylight.
Click to expand...

Something I think many of us secretly knew but had been shot down on many times. What is the native color temperature of the sensor exactly?

IBloom
 
"
BLUE FILTERS

80a
For use in exposing daylight
type colour materials under 3200k tungsten
illumination. Converts 3200-5500k,
with exposure of +2.

80b
For use under 3400k tungsten light. Converts
3400-5500k, with exposure +1 2/3.


80c
For use under 3800k tungsten light. Converts
3800-5500k, with exposure +1.


80d
For use under 4200k tungsten light. Converts
4200-5500k, with exposure +1/3."

Quote from:

Formatt-filters-catalogue, page 21.
 
Therefore 80c should be appropriate to bring 3200 to 5000..........(approx)

So, you need one stop more light........
 
Tom said:
Steve, not even DLSR single frame exposures hold up at their full resolution. If you are looking at them pixel for pixel, they are terribly noisy and ugly to look at. Anyone who has viewed large DLSR jpgs knows this to be true. Once you downsample a typical DLSR image from roughly 4K to 2K, the image looks much cleaner and nicer and much of the noise is lost. If you downsample it even further, the image will continue to improve.

I think with a 4K sensor like RED's, people should shoot 4K and finish at 2K, and the results will be impressive.
Click to expand...

thread hijack alert: :bleh:
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with your comment: "If you are looking at them pixel for pixel, they are terribly noisy and ugly to look at"

I have done a LOT of image processing with Nikon NEFs and find that pixel/image "quality" is VERY-VERY good at the lower (sub 400) ISO settings.

I don't have the time to post a 100% crop.

Regards
JohnG
 
John, I will try to get some pixel for pixel vs downsampled shots up on a new thread here. I've been meaning to do it.
 
Doc Holliday said:
Therefore 80c should be appropriate to bring 3200 to 5000..........(approx)

So, you need one stop more light........
Click to expand...

Hi,

Until you test you cant be sure, 80b seems just as likely with 1 2/3 stops loss.

Stephen
 
Dear Red Team,

It is a lot easier to recall a 100 cameras and correct these issues than a 1,000 cameras. We have two cameras reserved in the mid 500´s. We would prefer a solid camera a month or two late, than one that is in testing stages.
 
im.thatoneguy said:
Let's not forget though that lots and lots of people said the same thing about 4:2:2 compression. In fact... I've just heard a resurgence of this nonsense now that apple has endorsed it. And what apple endorses must...

If you start to accept mediocre because it's the best available then you're right back where you were before the "REDVolution". When you really know what's going on behind the scenes, you can anticipate the future, you can forsee problems, you can maximize your results. Unless you want to use trial and error to produce a great image understanding what the result is going to look like before you do something is critical.

The audience doesn't care if the blue channel looks great or not but the audience doesn't have to create the picture in the first place. If you want to be ignorant to what the image loooks like and skip right to the deliverable be my guest but it's a valid concern to have and important point to evaluate in depth because of the ramifications in numerous circumstances.

Someone is going to figure out how to maximize the RED camera and a few months later that knowledge will be considered common sense. And it will probably be because someone took the time to really look at the image and figure out what to do.
Click to expand...

Great ! thanks oneguy! Let me get this straight..we disagree so I am ignorant and accept mediocre. Love you too.
-A
 
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