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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Issues

Poi Boy said:
Great ! thanks oneguy! Let me get this straight..we disagree so I am ignorant and accept mediocre. Love you too.
-A
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hmm... I don't see a single thing that's disagreeable in his post. Methinks thou art being a little on the defensive side. His post makes a lot of sense.

Best,
R.
 
macgregor said:
I totally agree on this. The lower the color temperature you set on the camera, the more noise you get. 80A could help on this.
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oh no. Say this isn't so. Ill take the 3200 sensor and use an 85 for only a 2/3 stop loss while i have assloads of daylight to do it with. This thread is now starting to worry me?

Ive seen some amazing stuff from this camera but now Im starting to worry. This makes sense. There is no chance in hell anyone can do night exteriors with an 80a. No way. There must be a solution or mistake somewhere.

Didnt Rodney Charters shoot some night stuff with it? Same with all the other cats. I wonder if there is not another problem thats specific to the camera or some other processing mistake. The daylight stuff I've seen on a 50ft screen is noiseless. I expect a little noise on lower light stuff but not a "problem amount". Can some one post a still?
 
HOLLYWOOD SCHMOLLYWOOD said:
oh no. Say this isn't so. Ill take the 3200 sensor and use an 85 for only a 2/3 stop loss while i have assloads of daylight to do it with. This thread is now starting to worry me?
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Hi,

Many inferior sensors are native 3200. For that matter when Kodak only made one color stock it was also 3200, I wonder why!

Stephen
 
Stephen Williams said:
Edit, The 2 stops of light lost wont be popular, partial correction may be the answer, it's a shame the the sensor is not native 3200k it's only 2/3 stop loss to convert to daylight.
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Not to mention less painful since you're lighting using sunlight. It's easier to ND daylight than bring in another 2k.

Jim Arthurs said:
There's a list of simple tests I intend to do when I get mine, this color balance clarification is one of them... I wonder if this was tested with the L.A.R.T team?
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I think I can discuss what we did and did not test even if I can't tell you the conclusions.

We did not have any color filters so we were not able to test that. That being said there will be some results related to color temperature and the differing channels. Or at least direction on the most promising avenues to test further.
 
Matt Uhry and I shot a simple test of a model at a desk lit for daylight and for tungsten (though the window in the b.g. remained daylight), at 320 ASA. We had a Macbeth chart in the shot, but small in size. I did not get to see the results though at Lucas' Scratch station.

A good test would be to shoot a Macbeth color chart full frame to look for differences in noise levels in each patch at 5500K and 3200K. It works well for comparing film stocks of different speeds and color temps.
 
Sooo, Gavin. Did LART already happen? I thought that was postponed indefinitely. If it did happen, why can't you talk about it?

Edit: Looks like it did. See what a little research does?
 
Stephen Williams said:
Hi,

Sorry, but if the amount of light required increases 4 fold so does the budget. Actually it's more manpower to move larger lights so its more than 4 times the cost. So the theoretical savings of using a RED have just evaporated, I like to be realistic, I am in this business to make money whilst having fun.


Stephen
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This was the case for us. The lighting budget for the exterior night shots were based on the specs of the camera prior to production. After the first night shoot changes were made to the budget and they had to bring in additional 18K HMIs. Not to mention the extra manpower. The production had some very large exterior night scenes so maybe this is standard?? I am not a lighting expert but the tone on the set was this camera took much more light than normal to reach the desired stop.

To sum it up (based on my experience) the camera does produce some pretty images, it just takes more light (at night) than your average indie production will have.
 
Stephen Williams said:
Hi,

Ok shit, my lighting budget just went up 400%.

Stephen
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If you're obsessed with having the most prestine image then it's like picking 5245 (or I guess 5201 these days) to shoot in film. Obviously there is a trade off in image quaility vs. higher exposure indexes.
 
SF Geek said:
Sooo, Gavin. Did LART already happen? I thought that was postponed indefinitely. If it did happen, why can't you talk about it?

Edit: Looks like it did. See what a little research does?
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It happened and we're under NDA.
 
2 things about digital photography-

1. You get the best, most accurate, color under full spectrum sources, Daylight 5000-6000 kelvin, this goes for any digital sensor.

2. Tungsten light has almost no blue so it's not full spectrum at all, not even close.

In over 30 years of shooting blue/green screen for film, tape and digital blue channel reproduction has always been a challenge. On film that dye layer is really grainy (noisy) and on any electronic camera blue is noisy and has the least gain of any channel. Using green solves some of the problems but when you have to use blue, due to wardrobe or other factors, you still have problems. Even with highly notched light sources there still can be issues. Today it's so much easier than 20 years ago to do a color difference matte, one click of the eye dropper, that is unless it's shot very poorly which a lot of they are for what ever reason.

This camera is still under development so many problems will be solved down the road. I think Jim and all the Red guys have done an awesome job developing this camera from scratch in less than 2 years. Dalsa spent 4-5 years before they had a usable camera. So far more movies have been shot with the Red than the Dalsa camera to date and Dalsa has been around so much longer.

Time and Technology marches on, really quickly.
 
Gregorios said:
If you're obsessed with having the most prestine image then it's like picking 5245 (or I guess 5201 these days) to shoot in film. Obviously there is a trade off in image quaility vs. higher exposure indexes.
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Hi,

For Night shooting I would be happy to use Vision 2 5218, it's Vision 3 replacement or Fuji Eterna 500T. All excellent stocks available today making night shoots far easier and cheaper than when I joined the business 28 years ago.

Stephen
 
jtm said:
May I politely ask who ordered/why there is an NDA and if/when it might be lifted? - any illumination appreciated. Thx.
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Hi,

Well Steve Gibby was I believe the organizer of LART.

Stephen
 
jtm said:
thx for the LART info.

Am using vision 3 500T for the first time next week - interested to see the results (after being thoroughly underwhelmed by the Kodak 800) - but we live in hope.
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Hi,

When did you use Kodak 800, it's been discontinued for years.

Stephen
 
I just finished a DI feature on Eterna 500. Good stuff. I actaully think the color reproduction is more natural than 5218. A touch more latitude as well.
 
HOLLYWOOD SCHMOLLYWOOD said:
I just finished a DI feature on Eterna 500. Good stuff. I actaully think the color reproduction is more natural than 5218. A touch more latitude as well.
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Hi,

I did a back to back Eterna / 5218 / F900R I had hoped for a Red but all the pre production cameras were spoken for. I also preferred the Eterna 500T

Stephen
 
jtm said:
a few years ago - it was on a high intensity/low budget drama - switched to 500T pushed one stop - Better and less grainy.
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Hi,

I used some 4 year old 800T once, it looked like a snow storm! The 2700' that was left I threw away.

Stephen
 
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