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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

ISO news...

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sony cinealta is around 300 on p and 600 on i.
 
With what tonal curve though? HD cameras generally have a tonal curve that brightens up the image a lot, giving them an unnaturally high ISO rating....

Graeme
 
Graeme Nattress said:
With what tonal curve though? HD cameras generally have a tonal curve that brightens up the image a lot, giving them an unnaturally high ISO rating....

Graeme
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Standard 709 iirc.
I dont remember if its higher/lower on the kodak emulation in film setting, but in the 750/790/900 its pretty similar between film and 709.

The F23 is claimed to be pretty similar, but i never measured the F23. I am referring to the hdcam 2/3 cameras btw, i think the XDCAM should be less good.

If you want to have the details i would have to dig into the service manual, but i think today is not the day to read sony documentation!
Anyhow, they claim a lesser snr than the red, so the "pratical" asa rating of yours is higher than sony anyhow.

p.s. graeme, when i can bribe you (into speeding the windows support) by bringing a special whisky to amsterdam, let me know!
 
Bribing me personally for windows support won't help you I'm afraid. I'm windowsphobic :-) We have people on the team who know and understand Windows, but they don't need bribing, just some time to get it done.

As for the ISO and my question about the curve - indeed, REC709 is the transfer curve, but they tend to take the whole range of the sensor, call it 600%, assign the first 100% to the REC709 curve and add in the other 500% via a knee curve. That means the first 100% is very bright compared to what we do which is essentially treat the full dynamic range into the REC709 (or RED Log) curve. Doing the former, with the knee gives very videoy images and higher ISO than they should be able to claim using a more natural curve like we do. Hence my comment.....

Graeme
 
Graeme Nattress said:
Bribing me personally for windows support won't help you I'm afraid. I'm windowsphobic :-) We have people on the team who know and understand Windows, but they don't need bribing, just some time to get it done.
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hrrhrr... whisky can be good to relax phobics :)

Graeme Nattress said:
As for the ISO and my question about the curve - indeed, REC709 is the transfer curve, but they tend to take the whole range of the sensor, call it 600%, assign the first 100% to the REC709 curve and add in the other 500% via a knee curve. That means the first 100% is very bright compared to what we do which is essentially treat the full dynamic range into the REC709 (or RED Log) curve. Doing the former, with the knee gives very videoy images and higher ISO than they should be able to claim using a more natural curve like we do. Hence my comment.....
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i have seen that on several hd-cameras, but in the case of the sony 750/790/900/900R i wouldn´t say that. If you go into
menu->paint->black gamma
and set that to adjustable, you can modify the lower aspect of the curve. and its pretty similar in its maximum up and maximum dampening down setting, anything set down there makes a unlinear stronger falloff in the lower 2/3/4 stops.

If you are talking about the 700/730, it could be possible, with the standard sony block and electronics found in 750/790/900/900r however, i had no such experiences - and i have been using them almost from the time they appeared on the market.

Furtermore, they all offer several baselines in all gamma ranges to equal several kodak film stocks in film mode and several gammas to meet different BBC/ITU/709 etc lines - and they work well, at least in our 35mm & hdcam mixed shoots.

Once our first red arrives (we are ~900, *sigh*), we will do an alignement between both cameras in order to shoot combined.

p.s. ok, another try to bribe - a sortiment of whisky would probably not reduce our reservation number, correct? :)
 
Sure, you can modify the curve, but I'm assuming ISO sensitivity is measured as it standardly comes. Our standard setup is deliberately insensitive and yet it still gives a nice high ISO :-)

Graeme
 
Graeme Nattress said:
Sure, you can modify the curve, but I'm assuming ISO sensitivity is measured as it standardly comes. Our standard setup is deliberately insensitive and yet it still gives a nice high ISO :-)

Graeme
Click to expand...

I think the asas, even if comparable, are a good bit up to the qualification of the manufacturer.

What i can surely say, alone by the few testshots i have here - the red one low light behaviour is much better than anything i saw from sony 750/790/900/900r, GV Viper, Arri D20 and any Panasonic. -Much- better.

The ASA2000 shots look pretty fine & usable, with the other cameras you certainly won´t record that to a master without -strong- noise reduction.

p.s. As your ignored my selection of whiskey bribe for a lower resnr, i consider that try as failed as well. I am pretty certain i can´t lure you with 10 days of free hdcam rental? :)
 
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