Is there any footage available from major motion pictures in .r3d form?

[Brett Harrison]

Kind of like getting the stems of your favorite tracks. What a great learning tool! I can see myself A/Bing for days in TGWTDT RAW files until I got it exactly right.

Surely there's something like that out there?

 

[Phil Holland]

I sign very "detailed" contracts when working on studio projects. Some things don't see the light of day for a couple of years. It's their property and that's the source imagery. Nobody is going to give up that material in reality. That's the juice. I'm fortunate to have scans and .R3Ds from stuff I shot, but that's a trust position and I'm seeing the image through the pipe. I've shot about a dozen projects last year and I dont have a single frame. Gotta get clearance for the reel too.

 

[Brett Harrison]

Envious Phil, and I respect what you're saying. I guess this is a request to the powers that be to make available something to the RED community. Even if it were single frames - that would be amazing. I'm thinking something from the RED NAB 2013 reel. Or bits from LOOM.

Then we would instantly know where we are in terms of post production skill.

 

[George Tsai]

I remember a few instances where negatives were sold as a memorabilia. Could be interesting to see like a fan collectibles bundled with sample r3ds, even if it's of an outtake. Would be awesome if they even offered it to schools and universities as case studies and educational samples.

 

[Dermot Shane]

Actor's agreements rule out any release of unfinished footage without their consent.

I've seen clearence only once for the use of raw footage, Avid used the footage i finished & graded for a pop promo (Metric / Twilight film) for NAB show & Tell a few years ago

That limited use took Avid's legal dept months to get the signatures from the band and the actors agents for the footage from the film with pretty specfic caveats about what could (and could not) be used. But the raw R3D's & DPX film scans were out in the public

99% of what i work on is under NDA's, it's pretty common.

d

 

[Nick Pasquariello]

But the raw R3D's & DPX film scans were out in the public

Out as in visible at an NAB booth? Or out as in downloadable? It'd be killer to load up some R3Ds of Metric into Resolve and play around.

 

[MichaelP]

The agreements most always only allow Avid to use the footage and not made available to public. There are usually end of use rights in these agreements as well as such as a 12 or 18 month period and if out in public cannot be controlled. In the end, is it about the content or well shot footage that you want to play with? Or even more so, challenging footage that will make you work at getting a good or creative image?

Michael

 

[Brett Harrison]

The agreements most always only allow Avid to use the footage and not made available to public. There are usually end of use rights in these agreements as well as such as a 12 or 18 month period and if out in public cannot be controlled. In the end, is it about the content or well shot footage that you want to play with? Or even more so, challenging footage that will make you work at getting a good or creative image?

Michael

Just to be able to have the raw materials used to make something of a high standard. Firstly to see what well shot/lit r3d looks like and then the opportunity to attempt to match a well executed grade - this is a great way to learn because it's a master class and sanity check in one.

 

[Dermot Shane]

There's so much more than making a grade, there's well shot R3D's out there, but really it's atleast 80% about listening to the DoP and the Director.. Todd Daym and Brantly Guterez on this clip, they had a ton of input, they knew what they wanted and shot to make it work in post,

here's a screen grab from one clip on my timeline, you can see the R3D debayered with no tricks - i debayered three times with diffrent settings and compd them together inside luma ranges, and then re-light the tree and the ground, this was published by Oliver Peters, so it can be shared... othewise i could not even show these;

Michael has it right, Avid has the rights to use it for promo for a limited time, i cannot show anything but the finished piece... the footage was used at NAB and for the tutorials on gradeing when DSv10 was released, and some customer demo's.

It's really hard to get access to anything like this, speaking in general terms, not about this clip... we do alot of digital makeup / hair replacement / zit removal / relighting that actors agents will never-ever-never allow out...

 

[Matthew Love]

I've done some APPLE spots. HOLY SMOKES talk about getting clearance to even move the footage on my 24TB raid to work off of. They watch me clear everything at the end of the day.

 

[Nick Pasquariello]

I've done some APPLE spots. HOLY SMOKES talk about getting clearance to even move the footage on my 24TB raid to work off of. They watch me clear everything at the end of the day.

I was DITing a shoot a few weeks back, and the DP has done some Apple stuff in the past. He was telling me about it during lunch break. They maintain CONTROL. Impressive, really.

 

[MichaelP]

And the point I was trying to make, is that there is well shot R3D material out there that is not done by the studio. While it's fun to work on "recognizable" content, you should be able to find will shot R3D's. Take a look at some of the stock agencies that manage native R3D files.

Michael

 

[Nick Pasquariello]

And the point I was trying to make, is that there is well shot R3D material out there that is not done by the studio. While it's fun to work on "recognizable" content, you should be able to find will shot R3D's. Take a look at some of the stock agencies that manage native R3D files.

Michael

Sure. Hell, I could take my Scarlet out, shoot a time-lapse of a cityscape, and as long as my technique is sound, get the same quality footage that is used in big-budget features all the time.

The benefit of having R3D's that match those of an actual known feature with a quality grade, is that we could then break down what was done with it to get from camera through post and then in front of our eyes. I often wonder how much a shot was sharpened in post, or what was vignetted compared to qualified or otherwise selected. It's not just about working with quality footage. It's about comparing Apples to Apples.

I get why all the footage is locked down. It'd just be nice from a learning perspective to have a few clips floating around.

 

[Brett Harrison]

Sure. Hell, I could take my Scarlet out, shoot a time-lapse of a cityscape, and as long as my technique is sound, get the same quality footage that is used in big-budget features all the time.

The benefit of having R3D's that match those of an actual known feature with a quality grade, is that we could then break down what was done with it to get from camera through post and then in front of our eyes. I often wonder how much a shot was sharpened in post, or what was vignetted compared to qualified or otherwise selected. It's not just about working with quality footage. It's about comparing Apples to Apples.

I get why all the footage is locked down. It'd just be nice from a learning perspective to have a few clips floating around.

Nick, that's exactly what I am driving at.

I don't want to make excuses centered around not having sportscar software--but it would be interesting to see what can and cannot be done to match-grade a relatively simple shot from a film like Prometheus or TGWTDT or LOOM (that didn't have set extensions or zits in the shot).

In the OP I compared this to using recording stems from famous tracks. NIN, for example, regularly releases their stems for the purpose of remixing their work and learning to mix music. I've had a crack at doing this and I came away awed at the skills I didn't have. Ultimately it would serve as a humbling testament and inspiration to work up to the big talents in post. It would make for the mother of all 'grade my r3d' threads which I personally love participating in.

 

[MichaelP]

The benefit of having R3D's that match those of an actual known feature with a quality grade, is that we could then break down what was done with it to get from camera through post and then in front of our eyes. I often wonder how much a shot was sharpened in post, or what was vignetted compared to qualified or otherwise selected. It's not just about working with quality footage. It's about comparing Apples to Apples.

OK, I see what you are asking for, but now you want to have not only the original R3D files, but also a description of what was done in a DI color correction. That only adds to the difficulty of the request and there can be so much added to the frame(s) that revere engineering would be almost impossible if given the DPX of the same completed frame(s). You might be better served shooting the challenging situation yourself and finding a top level colorist in your area to show you how it can be manipulated to different look and feel as needed and see what the steps would be to achieve that.

Michael

 

[Brett Harrison]

OK, I see what you are asking for, but now you want to have not only the original R3D files, but also a description of what was done in a DI color correction. That only adds to the difficulty of the request and there can be so much added to the frame(s) that revere engineering would be almost impossible if given the DPX of the same completed frame(s). You might be better served shooting the challenging situation yourself and finding a top level colorist in your area to show you how it can be manipulated to different look and feel as needed and see what the steps would be to achieve that.

Michael

I think when Nick says 'break down' he means in a reverse engineering 'eyeball it' sense.

It's just to have point A and point B and then see if we can go between using our own tools. And again, it's not about how difficult the shot is - preferably it's a routine shot with low(er) scene contrast so we see what the colorist does with full range to execute an artistic sensibility.

 

[mikeburton]

I think we all understand what you are asking for. It's basically access to high quality frames without the final grade to attempt to match what the colorist did for the final film. However, this is like asking any great director, cinematographer, editor, composer etc to give there art to the masses...for free. Michael has the right answer here. Shoot something and practice your own techniques. The tools are sooo readily available to you now as apposed to just 5 years ago. Grab a trailer from Apples site, transcode it to ProRes, bring it into Resolve and study what's happening in shots you find beautiful.
But, if you really want to know what's happening behind the scenes go pay to have your own color session done and ask questions. Thats how i got started. And guess what, you'll be sitting with an expert and be able to express your interest in the craft and perhaps exchange info. Or, go beg a colorist / post facility for an internship. I paid $800 for 2 hours with a the senior colorist at Retina (now Spypost) in SF when I was in College and believe me that was a shit ton of money for me to save and spend back then on a 30 sec commercial I shot on 35mm just so I could go to a color house and see the tools and work with the best. And guess what? I still keep in touch with that same guy today. Then years later after i had some chops I re-scanned that same negative and colored the spot myself. Only difference is you have it way easier! You don't have to spend $$ scanning your old negative. You could have your shots colored and instantly have access to the digital negative to go home and play in the same software and attempt to match the grade the colorist did that you personally saw him/her do in front of you.
You're asking for the professionals who did all these things to just give you their secrets without showing any initiative other than asking for it on a forum. Think about that, please. There are some AMAZING color grading tutorials on the web if you search for them and there are opportunities if you search them out. But no one is going to give you anything for free. It takes good old fashion drive, initiative and hard work to get what you're asking for here.

 

[Nick Pasquariello]

I hear you guys, 100%, Mike and Michael. And believe me; I've had the past week or so without any work, so I've been watching a ton of tutorials and reading a ton about color science and formats and LUTs and codecs. I'm very much of the school of thought that even if everything were to be handed to you on a silver plate, all the knowledge and all the tools, you still need to work your ass off and take the initiative to ingest and digest it all.

So I'm not asking for a "free lunch", and I don't think Brett is either. The original question is "Is there any footage available from major motion pictures in .r3d form?" and the answer is clearly, and understandably, "No".

Would it be nice/useful to have a few clips? Of course. You can't deny that, used appropriately and with the right initiative, a student could learn a great deal from such a file. Is it the only way to learn? Of course it isn't. Are tools easier now than ever before to get access to? Damn straight they are. The proof is the Da Vinci Resolve Lite that lives on my laptop; imagine saying that sentence even 3 years ago with a straight face.

 

[Robert Ruffo New]

Yeah. The reason people like Phil Bloom can post so much of what he works on is that almost none of what he does is really professional work in the traditional sense. There's no top-flight client with real money and lawyers getting in the way of his posting. Ironically that is why a low-end DP like him can become "internet famous" - because he doesn't do high-end work. Other people can only publicly show what they did long after the gear and techniques used are no longer fresh news, and after a grueling paid shoot, I for one am not about to go shoot people at city bus stations with extra shallow depth of field in my spare time, like he does, because I'd rather just sit at a cafe with some good friends and wine, and/or do ANYTHING else.

Its'a also a reason why if you do an F65 search on Vimeo, you'll come up with almost nothing. People who can afford to shoot with an F65 don't have the time, need or desire to do free shoots just to post them on Vimeo - they're all busy shooting paid projects under NDA.

There's SO MUCH amazing stuff that a guy like David Mullen can't show you, and you'll notice his site doesn't have a reel, just the few stills he got permission to show. David Mullen also does not even have a Vimeo channel, and you won't ever catch him conducting DSLR workshops.

 

[Brett Harrison]

Mike, I meant no offence. If you check the first post it's just a question about if there's already anything out there. I'm not asking individuals to contravene their NDAs or throw me a bone. I've signed an NDA. I've read the clause about chopping off your favored hand, broiling and eating it.
But in the future I am sure we will get such material. Like Trent Reznor and others have done for music.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_musical_works_released_in_a_stem_format

I recognise that in movies there are greater complications (and this is what Phil expressed in the 2nd post).

Your advice about hiring a colorist for a few hours is great and I intend to do that in the near future. Solid advice and I appreciate it.

You're asking for the professionals who did all these things to just give you their secrets without showing any initiative other than asking for it on a forum. Think about that, please.

Respectfully, I'm not asking that. Half of my subsequent posts on here are just correcting the record on what the thread is. The notion that a before / after comparison will let loose the secrets of one's skill--I think you'll agree there's no way to mastery except through hard work. Picasso did sketches in restaurants in front of his friends. It only made them more in awe of him.

There are some AMAZING color grading tutorials on the web if you search for them and there are opportunities if you search them out. But no one is going to give you anything for free. It takes good old fashion drive, initiative and hard work to get what you're asking for here.

I would never expect a free lunch--I think the fourth law of thermodynamics is there are no free lunches. It's just part of my drive to ask questions and there's no harm in that. It's a public forum.