Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Is the RED One ever going to be upgraded to the Monstro chip?

Status
Not open for further replies.
David,

Swapping positions, as a business person I will take care first of my customer base, specially after they gambled the money into the "scam" two years before a concrete and tangible product was available, and make sure the concept promises are fulfilled (more DR, etc). After all, we are all part of Red's advertisement plan... Just think about it, and if you want we can discuss it off-line...
 
Luis Otero said:
David,

Swapping positions, as a business person I will take care first of my customer base, specially after they gambled the money into the "scam" two years before a concrete and tangible product was available, and make sure the concept promises are fulfilled (more DR, etc). After all, we are all part of Red's advertisement plan... Just think about it, and if you want we can discuss it off-line...
Click to expand...

Uh, oh...

... FIGHT!!!

Everyone!

... CAT FIGHT!!!

MEOOOOWWWW!!!!
 
Jason,

My first instinct when I saw your post: "grow-up, kid". If you think this is a fight, I am really sorry for you.

This is a forum, where we exchange opinions, most of them are healthy since we ALL have different points of view based on our unique backgrounds, understandings and expectations. This has made these line of products better. That is what makes this experience unique.

So, I suggest to be constructive, not take it personal, and before posting, examine if your comment or question is going to sparkle a mature exchange of opinions, that even though may be divergent, they will add value to the rest of the cyber community.
 
Luis,

Apparently you either lack humor, you're too uptight and stuffy, or you really need to get laid and smoke a joint.

If you take everything in context and my previous post, especially the one that I quote David's previous humorous post and call him a little girl as he called others, you should hopefully "surmise" (hey, that word sounds adult and mature, huh?) that I'm poking fun at you two arguing back and forth.

As you point yourself, this is a forum. We have "different points of view based on our unique backgrounds, understandings and expectations". I tend not to be Niles or Frazier Crane. I learn from this forum, hopefully share and help out others, and sometimes I kid and joke around.

So out of respect for the diversity of this forum, we don't always have to be constructive or self-reflect and examine our comments and polish them so they sparkle with such mature, pomposity.

Take it easy. I meant no harm or disrespect. I think David will get my fun teasing.

If you don't agree or understand what I just said, then the mature, adult thing to do is retract the previous posts and statements and say to you...

:bleh:
 
Point taken. Life is short and we need to live it to its full extent. I am known among my friends to have a good sense of humor...

However, there is time to joke, and time to talk serious business. I think I have developed the skill to understand when it is the appropriate time for each one.

PS

Do you own a Red? What serial number? I have been around this adventure for a long time...
 
Cool. Peace.

Yes, I'm a Red Owner. I can't remember my serial number... 1500's. Because, tragically, I shot twice with it. :( Although one shoot was really cool because I was shooting with a 10mm directly behind the goal when David Beckham scored.

I'm one of those masochistic birger mount waiters. I've recently canceled and ordered a nikon mount. So I hope to do less lurking and being silly on this forum and more shooting.
 
Ladies Ladies Ladies

I feel better we're taking swipes at our selves than little Jimmy.
Apart from a little pissin' competition, the world is ticking over....

1. Jim's said he's going to provide a future R1 upgrade path...√
2. There's a nice fat trade-in for Epic whatever.....√
3. We have to wait longer we'd like for 3+ stop......X

Not too bad...... Dave
 
david farland said:
Yep....this thread has a few whingers wanting to extract every ounce they feel is their birthright for purchasing a Redone.

Stop treating Jim like a bitch with 5000 nipples.
He said if you bought a Red he'd look after you....help you with upgrades...not give you social security payments for life!

The very fact you 'feel' he should provide you with meal tickets probably means you're still thinking and posting like a child!

Stop! Think for 1 min what YOU would do in this business transaction..
Think if you sold your Red (or something you made)....how you would provide continued support your customer!!....Then please, with all repect...Shut the F$$K up!!

D
Click to expand...

If you read my posts, there is no whining at all. There is a carefully worded request to not leave behind those of us who spent $40 K on Red stuff this year, and don't have another $40 K for the next year. Jim was able to answer me in the same tone, which is more than you can pull off.
 
david farland said:
Yep....this thread has a few whingers wanting to extract every ounce they feel is their birthright for purchasing a Redone.

Stop treating Jim like a bitch with 5000 nipples.
He said if you bought a Red he'd look after you....help you with upgrades...not give you social security payments for life!

The very fact you 'feel' he should provide you with meal tickets probably means you're still thinking and posting like a child!

Stop! Think for 1 min what YOU would do in this business transaction..
Think if you sold your Red (or something you made)....how you would provide continued support your customer!!....Then please, with all repect...Shut the F$$K up!!

D
Click to expand...
Yikes man, I just got a cold chill down my spine. wow. Bring some warm fuzziness back into the room. :)
 
david farland said:
You're correct Luis...it is a bit rough!

And yes we are all adults but after a constant scream of...can I?... can I?...the point I'm trying to get across is...as an adult, swap positions & think!

Think what you would do!
D
Click to expand...

If I developed a product (Scarlet) that kills the resale value of the previous product I just sold the customer, I would offer them an upgrade path. That is what Red is doing. It's an enlightened business model that tries to build a loyal customer base, and make sense. What we are trying to discuss is a refinement to that policy, because some feel a little stuck with a quickly obsoleted product, and may not be able to take advantage of the offer that is on the table. What's the problem here?
 
James, if I play the devil's advocate here, I would be more apt to side with you if Red released a new camera on the 13th. I would have felt like WTF just happened? But the reality is the new cameras won't be out for a while and there is plenty of opportunity for Red One to still be a very viable camera choice for the next year, at least, if not beyond. Think about it, everything is subject to change. To me, what's important is what is here right now. And that's a pretty good camera by most accounts. Keep it busy the next few months and the upgrade paths will be a lot more attractive.
 
back with a feeling of love & peace..... I think Jim is doing 1 thing that doesn't fit within his previous philosophies and that is to not offer a S35 to FF35 upgrade subsidy. All the rest is just a matter of fine tuning with the prices.
D
 
The issue I'm having is that the new line up is SO much better than the R1, which I find to be heavy, slow, and VERY hard to hand hold. With the better dynamic range, I can't see staying with the R1 at all. The FF epic, with trade in, will be $17,500 plus modules - probably $25 - $30 K. Or buy a FF Scarlet set up around $17K to $20K. Having just dropped $40K on a R1, that's gonna be hard.

Those of us who struggled with Avid from it's inception know the story - every two years you needed another $30K. I was so happy to ditch them as soon as Final Cut became viable. I don't want to end up feeling that way about Red.

I guess you gotta pay to play. I'll just sell some Citibank stock. Doh! Or start selling my body on street corners. hmmmm At least I've got a year to figure it out. The good news is we end up with a MUCH better camera.
 
James, You make it sound as though the R1 is already dead and gone. It's not. It is different than Epic and Scarlet, But not obsolete. I don't personally have a need to be up and running within a couple of seconds. Nor do I have a need to have a lightweight camera. Plus depending on your purposes attaching all the modules may not be all that fast either. Now having said that I understand that your concerns are valid for a different kind of shooter than me. But what will happen a year after you get scarlet and red comes out with a twelve ounce camera with unheard of dynamic range. are you going to be upset that you purchased a four pound camera? And as far as better camera goes that is again subjective to the shooter. a red one with the sensor upgrade is my ideal camera.
 
Ian, I shoot docs for TV, mostly solo. For my purposes, the Red One is quite limited. I only use it for B-Roll. Still using my Sonys for situations where I have to move quickly, use audio, or shady situations with high contrast highlights. It takes beautiful pictures when you have the time and resources to run it right, but as a solo in the field, it is heavy, slow, and very hard to hand hold. And with no communication between lens and camera, it takes much more time to nail focus and exposure. In the middle of a fast moving situation, I need to be able to hit the auto iris button. The R1 works better with a crew and good support options. I think it is a real winner for the feature crowd who have these resources, and time to set up and meter each shot.

I'm very excited about the new Red line up, because it appears to fix all of those problems. Some great thought and design has happened, with a lot of feedback from the first generation of Reds. I think we will all want to migrate, especially those of us who work solo (usually) shooting EFP. I could finally lose the Sonys, which I would love to do.

The big surprise here is that the high end Scarlets may be the perfect tool for my market segment, so I have respectfully requested that as an upgrade path. I don't think that is an unreasonable request because, if I adopt the new system, Red stands to make plenty of money selling me lenses and auxiliary gear for years to come. The response has gone from a polite no (Jim) to being flamed (fanboys who think they are defending Jim) I am disappointed because it means I'll have to come up with another $20 or $30 K to stay in the game, and own a Red that really meets my particular needs.

So it goes. In thirty years, I've made money with some cameras (Arri SR II , BetaCam) and lost money with others (DSR-500, HDCAM) Waiting to see where my Red One will end up. My final investment in a Red package will now top $70,000, which is not what it looked like two years ago, when I put my deposit down. Upon reflection, I guess the issue for me is this: The new line up makes the Red obsolete for me because they will (I hope) finally make Red my A camera. This is not the case for many users, for whom the Red 1 is ideal.
__________________
 
david farland said:
Ladies Ladies Ladies

I feel better we're taking swipes at our selves than little Jimmy.
Apart from a little pissin' competition, the world is ticking over....

1. Jim's said he's going to provide a future R1 upgrade path...√
2. There's a nice fat trade-in for Epic whatever.....√
3. We have to wait longer we'd like for 3+ stop......X

Not too bad...... Dave
Click to expand...

True words. Besides, I am uncertain if those who clamour for a physical upgrade of the R1 to Monstro have actually considered the implications. The Monstro has bigger pixels. That is the reason why it has higher senstivity and better dynamic range. This means that, with the same sensor size, you end up with less resolution. And - if it is possible to put a larger sensor in the R1, it will be an expensive upgrade.
 
Having had a few days now to think through all the news (there has been a LOT to digest); I have overcome my initial feeling of disappointment with Jim's announcements.

I think what Red has announced this past week is both evolutionary and revolutionary and I thank them for that.

The root of my initial disappointment came from the fact that we were led to believe that Scarlet was to be a semi-pro pocket camera that would in NO WAY compete with our Red 1's. This clearly is not now the case as Scarlet really will be better than our existing camera in terms of picture quality and certainly in terms of every day use. As a consequence the decision has had an impact on Red owners investment and business model.

Jim has however given us ALL an exit or upgrade strategy and for that we should thank him as this is indeed something that Sony and Panasonic never have or will offer end users.

I have not decided personally what way we will go in the future. If we want to move away from Red we can use the trade in offer to effectively work out a deal to get rid of our camera and actually get back what we originally paid for it. I'm not saying that we will do this, but it is an option open to everyone who feels in any way let down with Red.

We have been knocked out by the pictures we've got out our Red 1, but for a small company that works mostly in TV documentaries, the camera has been very challenging for us to use, mostly due to the weight and size of the camera and the time-consuming post workflow. The workflow and post position is changing now very much for the better so this is no longer such a concern for us personally.

I do think the upgrade option is attractive but requires some fine tuning or compromise to accommodate the many concerns voiced by Red 1 owners and the fact that Scarlet has turned out to be a completely different camera to the one that was advertised extensively by Red.

However, for the foreseeable future we will continue to shoot beautiful pictures on our Red, the decisions on where to go will only need to be made many months down the road!

Best wishes

Scott
 
First Light Films said:
If I developed a product (Scarlet) that kills the resale value of the previous product I just sold the customer, I would offer them an upgrade path. That is what Red is doing. It's an enlightened business model that tries to build a loyal customer base, and make sense. What we are trying to discuss is a refinement to that policy, because some feel a little stuck with a quickly obsoleted product, and may not be able to take advantage of the offer that is on the table. What's the problem here?
Click to expand...

James,

With way fewer words than mine you have captured the essence of the point I have tried to make since the 13th announcement: I think it will be fair for the first 1,000 to use the $17.5K toward the Scarlet. Anyways, we helped to raise $1M for Jim (which did not need to due to his hefty checking account) to develop this project.

That way Red would maintain its promises, and we do not get stuck without a true cost effective upgrade path. I want to feel that my loyalty is paid back with the same level of commitment from Red toward us, as we believed on them before having any type of concrete product. Is that TOO much to ask for from the initial customers base??:help: ???
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top