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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Is RedCine the only way possible to convert Red Raw media?

T

Thomas Mathai

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In the past, it would be easy to convert Quicktimes or AVIs to something else as long as the codec was made available.

Even if a Quicktime or AVI Red Raw codec is available for Final Cut, Premiere or After Effects, etc, is it essensial to use RedCine to do image conversion or can we use any of the supported apps to do it?
 
You will be able to play back REDCODE RGB stuff in QT-enabled applications... apparently. REDCODE RAW data has no pixels to display... so of course you'll need REDCINE to first develop said data. Until some other company does it... maybe.
 
I think you are confusing the role of raw with the role of a codec. They are completely different things.

A Raw file is like a piece of film. It needs to be developed. A Raw converter goes way beyond just "playing back" the file. Theres exposure adjustment, temperature balance, curve adjustment, demosaic, etc. It translates the greyscale data captured from the sensor into usable imagery. Once processed, you can then choose to export into whichever file format you prefer. Weather it be uncompressed, or RED's own Redcode codec.
 
There will be ways to use the quicktime codec for RAW use. However, you'll probably get the best control and user experience in REDCINE.

Graeme
 
REDCINE will be one (*) way

* :)

edit: Graeme just gave it away...
 
Graeme & Rob -

any decision yet if REDCINE will transcode other file formats (DPX, QT) TO Redcode? Or will it only transcode FROM Redcode?
 
It only takes REDCODE input, and will output to practically anything - exhaustive list will follow in the future when we've tested all the output options.

Graeme
 
I'm sure I'm asking too soon here, but is REDCODE (the codec) going to be given away to third parties? Is there plans for licensing? If a company wanted to be able to transcode to REDCODE (from DPX, QT) for other reasons (I have some ideas ...) , will that technology be available from RED for free? In a another app for a fee?
 
A good thought. Those are details we're really going to have to work on.

Graeme
 
Seperate from whatever the radical ideas I have on how REDCODE could used in production & post workflow - archival is just a no-brainer!

My company works on projects in all kinds of formats 720p, 1080p, DPX, SD, DVCPRO 50, DV etc. etc.

Now imagine that every project could be transcoded and archieved into one "universal intermediate" codec - REDCODE.

Then, whenever you need to revisit the media - REDCINE gives you what you need.

REDCODE = universal digital intermediate

Isn't this what CineForm is doing for HD content for Xbox?
 
Well, if you output to REDCODE you left the RAW domain. If you ingest RAW and change *nothing* then you could in theory output RAW again, but that's not how the real world works.

So with our codec installed any QuickTime compatible application should in theory be able to export to it.

You will not be able to (nor would that be useful) put that back into REDCINE. It only understands the files the camera generates.
 
so, let's say I have an HD feature film, 1920 x 1080 in 10 bit RGB codec - color corrected in SCRATCH (in 32 float). I output to HDSCAM SR for master, but I want to archieve for possible film-record out later. Or, a feature film in 2K DPX (10 bit log) - Don't you think it would be handy to be able to take the uncompressed 10 bit media or 2K DPX and transcode to REDCODE (12 bit) to archive?
 
I"m looking at it from a post facility point of view. Sometime next year, I'm sure to see some footage from Red camera for either film out or DI.

It always makes more sense from my standpoint for me to convert the Raw media and integrate it into the pipleline, instead of just be given DPX files, which I wouldn't know what was done to it.

I'm sure there are a lot of post facilites that want as much control as possible over the images that enter their pipeline.

For some, RedCine may not fit into their pipeline elegantly, so that's why I was wondering if it's absolutely essential that the Red Raw media has to be converted with RedCine.

I will assume Scratch will probably support Red Raw sooner than the other DI apps, just because how actively used it is with the test material.
 
offhollywood said:
so, let's say I have an HD feature film, 1920 x 1080 in 10 bit RGB codec - color corrected in SCRATCH (in 32 float). I output to HDSCAM SR for master, but I want to archieve for possible film-record out later. Or, a feature film in 2K DPX (10 bit log) - Don't you think it would be handy to be able to take the uncompressed 10 bit media or 2K DPX and transcode to REDCODE (12 bit) to archive?
Click to expand...

If you have an HDCAM SR as your master, you just make a clone of that and give it to the facility you want for your filmout.

If you want to save on space, you would convert the DPX to Red Code.
 
acehole said:
I think you are confusing the role of raw with the role of a codec. They are completely different things.

A Raw file is like a piece of film. It needs to be developed. A Raw converter goes way beyond just "playing back" the file. Theres exposure adjustment, temperature balance, curve adjustment, demosaic, etc. It translates the greyscale data captured from the sensor into usable imagery. Once processed, you can then choose to export into whichever file format you prefer. Weather it be uncompressed, or RED's own Redcode codec.
Click to expand...

I know what Raw is, I just wanted to know if RedCine was the ONLY way to convert Red Raw media.

This is where I would rather have the control over what is done to the Raw than the person handing it to me.

If I'm going to be responsible for the final image output, then I want control over all the steps, instead of being handed files that someone else tweaked without knowing how the files were tweaked.

With film scans, I can always tell when a negative wasn't properly developed and make adjustments when rescanning.
 
Thomas Mathai said:
If you have an HDCAM SR as your master, you just make a clone of that and give it to the facility you want for your filmout.

If you want to save on space, you would convert the DPX to Red Code.
Click to expand...

that's correct.

but I'd rather output AND archive a higher resolution image than HDCAM SR -

ideally, I want to output REDCODE from SCRATCH - (I'm working in 32 float, why go to 10-bit files that are much larger than 12 bit REDCODE files??)

The 2K or 4K 12-bit lin in REDCODE is my master - REDCINE gets me whatever I want to layoff, encode for DVD, etc.
 
Redcode defined

Redcode defined

I thought REDCODE was a I-frame only wavelet encoder. Is this correct?
 
REDCODE is indeed I-frame only (no GOPs) and is wavelet based. Beyond that, we have a special variant for RAW too (REDCODE RAW).

Graeme
 
Thomas: why not do the conversion in REDCINE yourself? Just ask for the original camera negatives and process those yourself.

offhollywood: if you can export to REDCODE then that should work. But that is a different REDCODE than REDCODE RAW which is what the camera generates (and is loadable *in to* REDCINE)
 
Thanks for that clarification Rob ..

So REDCINE only takes REDCODE RAW in -

Out of the camera is REDCODE RAW or UNCOMPRESSED RAW (or HDSI) -

What gives you "REDCODE"? (Not REDCODE RAW?)
 
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