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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Is RED upgrading EPIC-X yet?

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D Anderson said:
Imagine for a moment RED gave real honest-to-goodness dates!

So think back - around end/start of 2011/12 you are told you can get an Scarlet to Dragon upgrade in just a few months (mid 2012).

Now imagine the alternative - RED gives you REAL dates.

So now (2 years ago) RED says Scarlet upgrades are coming mid/late 2015! 2015!!!!!!!!!

Holy cow!

Is this misleading info given out to hold customers to REDs eco system? If you overlook the fake clean room shenanigans you could say yes, its honest (albeit massive) miscalculations. Either way, it`s mind boggling how incorrect the dates have been and I`m sure real dates would push customers to look at other options.
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Do you often wrap sets exactly on time? Did you finish late because you meant to mislead your crew, or because one of 500 things went slightly wrong, from bad weather to an HMI with a flickering ballast, to an actor not knowing their lines? Making complex technology is no different.
 
Robert Ruffo New said:
Do you often wrap sets exactly on time? Did you finish late because you meant to mislead your crew, or because one of 500 things went slightly wrong, from bad weather to an HMI with a flickering ballast, to an actor not knowing their lines? Making complex technology is no different.
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Though the wait can seem frustrating at times, I agree with Robert. I can't remember when I was on set and everything fell perfectly into place and the timeline was executed flawlessly.

My take on the RED Scarlet release is fairly simple. I have forgotten about it. I have moved on with equipment and productions. When its ready, it will be ready. I will be excited for that day...but I also will not put life on hold for it. Since I signed up on the 8th, I have purchased a few new cameras and a bunch of other production toys. I also used the money I was going to spend on the upgrade to help pay for those purchases. Just needed to move forward. If and when RED releases it I will be excited but also take an assessment if that upgrade will be worth it at that point.

As of now, I still plan on upgrading. Playing devils advocate...my current RED rig has been working flawlessly, creating wonderful images, and keeping business fruitful. Maybe waiting to invest much further down the road is a smarter move for me.
 
you can shoot today with a camera from 2018, 2015 you get one from 2020...sounds like a great deal to me. skipping the waiting needs a time flux machine you can buy today, called carbon epic.
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Anyone who bought a Scarlet based on an expectation to upgrade to Dragon "within a few months" just doesn't know the RED landscape. That's a guarantee for disappointment. :frown:
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See the quote from Jarred a few posts back saying just that - easy to look back and say it was all smoke and mirrors - easier still to say we all expected massive delays. Clearly plenty people have been surprised.

I`m just saying I doubt anyone could have foreseen how wrong the info from RED way back then would turn out to be.
 
If you have hung around here for awhile you would just naturally take predictions of timing with a big grain of salt.
 
Not that I pretend for a second to know whats really going on...but I bet at the time they had every intention of meeting their target goals. Thats the main different between misleading people and just getting off schedule. Getting off schedule do to the complications of innovating technology is excusable. I tend to walk the optimistic line. I'm sure it would have been in their financial interest to release it earlier..the fact that they did not just means they care about the end result. I can live with that. Until then...I'll test the waters with some different cameras. I also plan on upgrading when the time comes if it still makes sense to do so.
 
My guess is RED is just as frustrated by the delays as those of you waiting on cameras. (See what i did there?'-)

And I also believe they will take to heart what a few on here have suggested... that is, announce nothing!

So for those of us who have to go into periods of spending torpor in order to purchase new things that we find useful, I suggest we remain in a perpetual state of spend-thriftiness because we are likely not going to get future "heads-up" when a new product is in the works.
 
That's just nonsense. There are many marketing reasons why you would announce products as early on as possible and Reds prowess in marketing is too vast to ignore them...
 
Robert Ruffo New said:
Do you often wrap sets exactly on time? Did you finish late because you meant to mislead your crew, or because one of 500 things went slightly wrong, from bad weather to an HMI with a flickering ballast, to an actor not knowing their lines? Making complex technology is no different.
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Sorry, but the times by which Red has missed it's public targets does not make your comparison fair. Red announcing a $3000 Scarlet in November 2008, but delivering a $14000 Scarlet in February 2012, if compared to film production, would be like saying: we planned to film a feature in 1 month, but it took us 3 months..... or we had a budget of 1 million, but spent 3 million... Red is missing targets by 200%, not 50%. Dragon was announced in April 2011, yet most upgraders people do not have their Dragon in March 2014, with most not getting theirs for a number of months yet (maybe)... forget people wanting to buy a non-Carbon Dragons fresh.

I realize that creating a 6k camera for the first time is more difficult and complex than creating a feature film. All the more reason to hire marketing people that understand this, rather than marketing people that obviously don't. Red gains nothing from continually missing it's announcements by YEARS. I hope, for the sake of Jarred and the Red Bomb Squad, that Red does not announce Dragon's successor in 2 weeks at NAB.
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
That's just nonsense. There are many marketing reasons why you would announce products as early on as possible and Reds prowess in marketing is too vast to ignore them...
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They don't just announce - they quote dates and then proceed to get it wrong by many YEARS! How is that prowess?

There seems to be a fine line between enthusiastic fan and apologist.

I think most agree if RED could announce products WITHOUT dates and not raise impossible to meet expectations it could ONLY be a good thing.
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
That's just nonsense. There are many marketing reasons why you would announce products as early on as possible and Reds prowess in marketing is too vast to ignore them...
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Jacek, you should quote whomever you are accusing of nonsense... otherwise you will cause multiple posters to be in a huff instead of just the one. '-)
 
Michael Gyori said:
Red gains nothing from continually missing it's announcements by YEARS. I hope, for the sake of Jarred and the Red Bomb Squad, that Red does not announce Dragon's successor in 2 weeks at NAB.
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Who knows if that type of PR possible - we will see.

I`m hoping to see interesting things without the COMING SOON sticker.
 
I was sitting in the lobby of RED the other day . . . they had "Pacific Rim" playing on the monitor . . . holy shit what a clear rich dimensional image!!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1663662/technical?ref_=tt_dt_spec

Looks to have been shot on regular unleaded Epic-X with garden variety lenses . . . Fools should have waited for a better sensor ;-)
 
its not a bad thing to milk the MX for any last money we can get out of it... when it ships it ships, nothing much any of us can do about it other then wait anyway
 
D Anderson said:
They don't just announce - they quote dates and then proceed to get it wrong by many YEARS! How is that prowess?

There seems to be a fine line between enthusiastic fan and apologist.

I think most agree if RED could announce products WITHOUT dates and not raise impossible to meet expectations it could ONLY be a good thing.
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Completely agree! Although I don't think they should even announce anything that 'could' be more than a year away from being in people's hands.
 
D Anderson said:
Who knows if that type of PR possible - we will see.

I`m hoping to see interesting things without the COMING SOON sticker.
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Personally, I don't want to hear about anything from Red that is not coming soon (and by soon I mean 'coming very soon' to Red... within a year!). Isn't it enough that they make some of the best cinema cameras in the world after only 8 years of existence! Show off some of the amazing content shot with Red at NAB... Get the biggest projection screen and blast 4k video out onto a screen bigger than Adobe's workshop screen! Show off Redcine-X! Show off the powers of RAW, which most other cameras STILL struggle to record natively. That is all very impressive stuff. Show Dragon content that shuts up the skin-tone Alexa lovers.... ok, that might not ever be possible. Show Dragon's impressive color gamut. Show the incredible dynamic range! Show people the easy Red workflow which many people STILL think is difficult. There are so many cool things that can be showcased at NAB. I don't need to hear about some new product/sensor/module that may or may not be coming in 3 years!
 
Michael Gyori said:
Red announcing a $3000 Scarlet in November 2008, but delivering a $14000 Scarlet in February 2012...
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Well, if are are going to criticize, you should get the facts right. They started taking orders for Scarlet in 2011 and it was $9750. :smiley:
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
That's just nonsense. There are many marketing reasons why you would announce products as early on as possible and Reds prowess in marketing is too vast to ignore them...
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HMMM… Considering how good their products are (they really make GREAT cameras) vs how little demand there is for them from DPs here and in L.A. I can say that their marketing is maybe not as good as it could be.
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Well, if are are going to criticize, you should get the facts right. They started taking orders for Scarlet in 2011 and it was $9750. :smiley:
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But realistically if I'm not mistaken the 3K for 3K Scarlet was ready to shoot (bar media) where as the $9750 Scarlet was only the body, SSD and Canon mount, right? So his $14,000 isn't that far off to get it shooting.
 
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