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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Is my RED Dragon a faulty camera?

C

Christian Fitzpatrick

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Hey guys,

Now, ease up here and hear me out. I am only asking the question based upon my experience because I don't know what is considered 'normal' for RED camera's. I know everybody here is a massive fan and this is most definitely not a RED bashing thread I'm trying to start here, I just genuinely want to know others experiences because I am worried that I just have a bad egg.

I purchased a Dragon in August 2015. Since then it has failed twice with weird corruption issues affecting graphics output, random shutdowns etc. and twice I have submitted logs and it has had to go back to RED in the US for what only is conveyed as an internal board failure. Little else is communicated as to the exact issue.

The first time it was fixed, it was "tested OK and peformed to spec. . . blah blah blah" and sent back, only to fault again within literally 5 hours of use before having to be sent back.

We purchased RED Armour so the guys have been pretty understanding and helpful, I will give them that. . . .but. . . .we're still A$60K in the hole for this camera, which has spent 30% of it's life thus far getting fixed at RED HQ or not working.

I simply want to know if this is something everybody has to deal with that has a Dragon or is the consensus that this is uncharacteristic.

My concern is that with a warranty that is not transferrable, we have a camera here that has diminished resale value - as the cost of repairing this every month or two and sending it back to RED would just be prohibitive.

Please do add your thoughts here and please understand this is not a hate thread. . . .I know of only one other person with a Dragon and this hasn't been their experience but don't really have a broader frame of reference.

Thanks in advance.

EDIT ** August 2015 Camera was purchased. 6 months old.
 
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From my experience, this is not common but can happen. And when it does, I'm sure it takes some of the wind out of your sails because it means time and money potentially squandered. RED is generally very good at handling these issues as long as you follow the right procedures for getting it serviced. For example, if they ask for log files, make sure to get them those ASAP. And stay in touch with your reps as much as you can. Ultimately it is in RED's best interest to keep their customers happy so if you have a lemon, the quicker you can get it resolved, the better. Otherwise, as you said you'll start to lose money on the whole thing.

Hopefully you are back up and running soon.
 
I've owned several red cameras over the past 9 years and the only problem I've ever had was an internal battery failing which resulted in TOD being off. That's it! Hang in there the odds are with you.
 
That's no fun at all Christian. I've had Reds for 8 years now and have never had any problem worth sending it in for. Some peripherals, but never the body. It may be a "lemon" and that's just one of those things that can happen with any purchase. Hopefully you'll get it resolved though and back to shooting. It definitely sucks to have your camera "in transit" instead of making money.
 
As complex as these devices are, I'd be more surprised if there weren't a few "lemons" that managed to sneak through outbound QC. That said, two failures in 16 months doesn't qualify as a "lemon" in IMHO. I know that lauding RED customer service yet again is hardly solace when it's your balance sheet suffering, but at least you know you won't get blown off by some corporate flunky at one of the other manufacturers.

FWIW, the vast majority of the REDs I've dealt with have been rock solid with 99%+ uptime.

Cheers - #19
 
Hi Christian,

I have had the same experience. I bought my Dragon about 5 months ago and about 3 of those months the camera has been in LA for repairs. In theory I should have been saving $3-4k per job in rentals but I've actually only been able to use it on 2 of my last 6 productions. So I'm $40k deep on the camera and at least another $12k deep on rentals for a camera I already own — so stupid. Even now, at this moment, I do not have the camera because it's in for repairs. It's been the same issue (screen going wonky/staticy/non-responsive) all 3 times but the first time it was blamed on the display, the second time it was blamed on a bad board, and the third time it was supposedly fixed just by upgrading the firmware even though I tried that multiple times before sending it in. So I feel like there's a broader issue going on here (look at all the other threads here of people having display issues). My first experience owning a RED has been overwhelmingly negative thus far. I just want a camera that works. I don't feel like that's a lot to ask for $40k.

John
 
Bad luck mate... Try to get alternate monitor and control if it pops up?
 
We all need to start beating this drum...


We need loaner cameras when we have to send them in for repair.

I honestly think that it would be smart move for Red and wouldn't cost much at all.

Fortunately I've had pretty good luck overall. But I have been without my camera while it was being repaired (under warranty ) and it has cost me.

Loaners please!

;)
 
John Carl said:
Hi Christian,

I have had the same experience. I bought my Dragon about 5 months ago and about 3 of those months the camera has been in LA for repairs. In theory I should have been saving $3-4k per job in rentals but I've actually only been able to use it on 2 of my last 6 productions. So I'm $40k deep on the camera and at least another $12k deep on rentals for a camera I already own — so stupid. Even now, at this moment, I do not have the camera because it's in for repairs. It's been the same issue (screen going wonky/staticy/non-responsive) all 3 times but the first time it was blamed on the display, the second time it was blamed on a bad board, and the third time it was supposedly fixed just by upgrading the firmware even though I tried that multiple times before sending it in. So I feel like there's a broader issue going on here (look at all the other threads here of people having display issues). My first experience owning a RED has been overwhelmingly negative thus far. I just want a camera that works. I don't feel like that's a lot to ask for $40k.

John
Click to expand...

Yeah, so I made a mistake in my original post. I purchased in August 2015, not 2014. So John, that would put you and I purchasing around the same time and our experiences have been quite similar. My camera is about 6 months old - 30% of the time I've had it it's been in LA or in transit pretty much.

Both times they have said it's an internal board "not working to specification" however the first time they did ask about my screen and the screen cable too.

RED Rep said this is very rare. . .and from most peoples posts. That would seem to be true. I wonder how many other people with Dragons from the same manufacturing period and setup (Side handle, 7" Touch Screen, MiniMag Reader, Canon Mount) are having weird little issues like this.
 
Bad luck mate... Try to get alternate monitor and control if it pops up? That at least gives you a plan b
 
I'm on the Red train since early 2008. Thus far my camera went all the upgrade paths up to Epic Dragon. Every iteration of my camera had sensor issues that needed service at Red. Each of them, the RedOne, the Epic MX and now the Epic Dragon had downtime of 20 days until I got them repaired back. This is a cost factor that has to be considered. In my case about 14k.

Considering the usage of my camera of just about 30 days a year my reliability experience with Red is not overwhelming. But for the price Red's top-of-the-line camera is a very good performer.

--

The price-perfomane ratio of Red's new Weapon is not so great anymore and gives hardly any edge in real production life to a dragonized Epic. That means for me that my Red upgrade path ended in 2015. I wait and hear what the word about Weapon is, especially when the new sensor is there. Reliability is very important for a professional motion picture camera. Much more important than the number of pixels as Arri's phenomenal success story impressively shows.

Loaner cameras would be a very good sign to the market to underline that Red takes reliability serious. We already have that in the automotive world with mobility guarantee.


Hans
 
Troy Bakewell said:
We all need to start beating this drum...


We need loaner cameras when we have to send them in for repair.

I honestly think that it would be smart move for Red and wouldn't cost much at all.

Fortunately I've had pretty good luck overall. But I have been without my camera while it was being repaired (under warranty ) and it has cost me.

Loaners please!

;)
Click to expand...

To rent one local for the days its needed is probably far less costly then shipping cameras around the world with curriers especially considering all the documents needed to do so. I think possibly red could have some loners to lend out in emergencies in their facilities.

But personally I rather see the prices remain low and sort the emergency backup issues my self. If you are worried that your camera will break and that such event will ruin your budget, then possibly renting is the option you should go for or buying two brains and use one for backup.
 
Jonathan Bird said:
My very small production company deals with broken cameras (mostly due to airlines) frequently enough that we have not two but three of our workhorses in the office at all times. This gets a little expensive with a Dragon though!
Click to expand...

Sounds expensive, but awesome. I will have to pay this one off first before I risk divorce by buying another. :D
 
Björn Benckert said:
But personally I rather see the prices remain low and sort the emergency backup issues my self.
Click to expand...

Surely, the first thing to do then should be putting a stop to all the trade in programs? Then, you could slash $10-15k off of the larger cameras, plus there would be a much healthier 'used REDs' market for people wanting to shoot RED.

Cheaper new cameras and more RED users. Seems like a win for RED, and not much of a hit for current users once the mental roadblock has been traversed.
 
Troy Bakewell said:
We all need to start beating this drum...


We need loaner cameras when we have to send them in for repair.

I honestly think that it would be smart move for Red and wouldn't cost much at all.

Fortunately I've had pretty good luck overall. But I have been without my camera while it was being repaired (under warranty ) and it has cost me.

Loaners please!

;)
Click to expand...

They do have loaner cameras, if they are one available when you camera needs to be serviced. Thats a different question. But they do have loaners at times, I had a loaner camera while my SDI port was being replaced.
 
Just bought our Dragon brand new, and shot about 5 minutes worth of camera tests. First shoot day, stopped powering on. It's back at red now. Problems straight out of the box.
 
I've had 5 red camera's with no issues, but I am fanatical about the following:
only high quality & tested batteries/mounting ( I use Anton Bauer)
no used cables (who knows what has happened to them) and only high quality (i.e. Cables went thru qa)
fanatical on proper process for connecting cables (people don't have proper training anymore, though everyone thinks they do)
always have an A and B camera ( Murphy's law is you always need a B camera when u don't have one, and u never need a B camera when u have one)
know your shipping guys and always pay for the faster ship option (so much is screwed up in shipping, sometimes it's the same crew of jerks that do insanely stupid stuff ... So if someone is having multiple issues I always suspect shipping). (Even then I have seen very expensive cameras in the back of "express" pickup trucks bumping around exposed to thunderstorm and sleet )
 
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