IRNDs for Dragon?

[Caleb Heymann]

I was hoping to wait to do some proper testing, but it looks like I may have to go ahead and order a new set of ND filters (1.2 - 2.1) in the next two weeks. I shoot a good chunk of the year in South Africa under hot sun where we routinely have to use seven to eight stops of ND, and up until now I've been using normal Schneider NDs with the Trucut 750, and simply taking out the magenta bias through white balancing. I know the consensus is that hot mirrors are the way to go for MX, but I've never been a fan of how delicate they are, the fact that they can't be stacked and of course the reflection issue is a pain, so to me it wasn't worth forking out for a new set with the Dragon approaching.

Now that a few people have had a chance to get their hands on a Dragon, does anyone have an opinion (not expecting anything scientific) about how ND filters react with the Dragon's new IR cut? The Tiffen IRNDs (the Full Spectrum ones, not the Hot Mirror) are pretty standard around here, and I'm hoping that with the Dragon they will suffice. The Schneider Platinums are also fairly common but they had a heavy cyan shift on the MX sensor, especially at 1.8. Would be great if that was remedied by the new sensor.

Any experiences so far would be great to hear.

Thanks, Caleb

 

[John Marchant]

Hi Caleb.

Short answer - you'll be fine with Tiffen IR NDs - you'd be fine even with their standard NDs, as used in my tests below.
I found only as much IR contamination at 7 stops of ordinary ND as MX has with zero ND applied.

Tungsten -

Daylight -

 

[Ivan Kovax]

That is pretty amazing, John. Thanks for that.

So basically, there are no real practical situations in which IR pollution is an issue anymore?

 

[John Marchant]

I've yet to find a situation where its an issue... I can see extremes where it MAY happen, but really its fixed as far as any practical test I've done shows.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Hmm...John, if you get a chance can you shoot some real world fabric tests. That would be very impressive if Dragon is performing that well under heavy IR scenarios.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Those spectral images are impressive John. Do you have comparison charts for MX?

 

[Caleb Heymann]

Hi John, thanks for sharing. That sounds very encouraging, if you can get away with 7 stops of normal ND I'd be a very happy man. Also hope to see some real world comparisons with black fabrics, hot sun and hot tungsten light, and normal ND vs. IRND vs no ND. I'll be happy to do it once my Dragon arrives, hopefully in December.

 

[Robert Ruffo New]

Cheap black fabric under tungsten - after that fabric has had some time to get hot (or cheap black fabric under sunlight on a hot day) that's wheree IR tends to rear its ugly head most often. It is heat related, so light spectrum is not the whole story.

 

[Eric Haase]

yes id love to see the black fabric in hot sun test with straight NDs vs Tiffen Hot Mirror IRNDs.

 

[John Marchant]

Revisiting the logic of this- the sensor doesn't respond directly to thermal energy , nor would it be focused by an optical lens... The contamination we get in IR from hot dark objects is still electromagnetic radiation in the IR wavelengths, so whatever the source of the IR - sun, tungsten light, hot black fabric etc , improved rejection of IR wavelengths is the answer. Dragon clearly does that, and I'll be surprised if anyone can invent a test that shows otherwise

 

[Ketch Rossi]

And it is important to remember that for those of us using the RED Motion mounts, this already incorporate an "IR" Cut Filter.

 

[Will Keir]

yeah John! Thanks for those tests.

 

[Will Keir]

How is that motion mount working out?

And it is important to remember that for those of us using the RED Motion mounts, this already incorporate an "IR" Cut Filter.

 

[Robert Hart]

A good thing about all the RED cams that have gone forth, multiplied and subdued the earth - well that might be a bit of dramatic licence - are the companion products that are perfectly functional with the SI2K which might not have been viable if there were not enough potential customers to support the R and D. This is not to say that other camera systems do not need IRND filters. They likely do. They are very useful with the SI2K along with an Ultracon filter. Still learning to live with the IRND1.8 which enables me to reach down into the sweet spots of Super16mm lenses in the zone T2 - T4 in our overbright summer conditions. The green has to be pulled down but that is also a bonus as the greens seem to be more faithful deeper into the dynamic range as well. Please forgive the colour-grade in the following clip. I am a bit red-green colour-blind. The footage is not representative of RED cam imaging in any way whatever but may be of relevance for anyone shooting in high frame rate 2K when you want as much sharpness to the sensor as you can possibly find. The colour zonation in the sky is due to the hard sky from reflection from coastal plain Bassendean sands to the right and the gentler sky over our forested inland hills. ----- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18W_tg_2z8A

 

[Ketch Rossi]

How is that motion mount working out?

Both PL & Canon Motion Mounts, have gain redefined how one uses a camera to capture imagery on the RED EPIC (for me) as well as for Scarlet users!!

This are not just about filtering out unwanted IR, or adding ND filtering without the need of an additional MB and Glass filters in front of your lens, (please note that as I said in other thread, an MB it is still a necessary way of shading your Lens, even if you do not use any ND's or Filters, and additionally, you will still need to use ND's with the Motion mounts under some conditions, especially useful will be the addition of Soft Graduate ND's and of course the "Quarter Wave" of which I strongly advise the use of a Rotating one) it is about how it now can directly change for the better, how your imagery it is captured under the different scenarios, only the months to come and the imagery acquired with them will be testimony to how fantastic this Motion mounts are!!